Playing flute, with overbite

[Jim Troy]

I have a query, regarding playing flute, with over bite.
This may be a sensitive subject, so I can be contacted at address below.

I have a pupil with over bite, 12 ish years old, who plays other instruments and has a good understanding of music and is getting a good tone from the flute, as much out of sheer determination, as musical ability.

I'd like to get some feedback, from people who play flute, and have an over bite, or flute teachers who have flute pupils, with over bite.

No dental advice please, just your experience, or your pupils.

Maybe there's a post here already, or PM me on the subject.
Or, jimtroy.tanvey at gmail.com
In which case, any or all info is for my own personal use as a teacher.

[jim stone]

If it works, don't fix it.

[Steampacket]

According to paragraph 5 in this article (flute diva) and thesession.org discussion an overbite is a positive feature as regards playing the flute:
http://www.flutediva.com/flute-tips-for-everyone.html

http://thesession.org/discussions/25252

[Steve Bliven]

I confess to having (what I would consider) a modest overbite. Maybe not like this....
...but still an overbite.

I've found that it is both a help and a hindrance.

On the plus side, it helps me blow down into the headpiece and more easily get a "dark" tone. As I've been learning, I've had people ask how I got that tone long before I realized I even had it.

On the minus side, I do have to extend my lower jaw a bit to hold the instrument in position. Those muscles are not generally used for extended periods of time and so I'm still struggling with having the stamina to play sets of 4- and 5- part jigs and the like.

Of course, only your student's orthodontist would know how his/her jaw alignment might compare with mine, but I guess the bottom line is, as said above, work with what you got...

Best wishes.

Steve

[Jim Troy]

Oops ! apologies, so sorry, looks like I stumbled into the session splat orgue.

I had meant to check out a flute players discussion site.

Again, my apologies.
Jim Troy.

[MTGuru]

Oops ! apologies, so sorry, looks like I stumbled into the session splat orgue.

I had meant to check out a flute players discussion site.

[benhall.1]

Oops ! apologies, so sorry, looks like I stumbled into the session splat orgue.

I had meant to check out a flute players discussion site.

Sorry to speak for you, Jimmy ...

... but I think what our Tanvey Island resident means is that he's after actual advice from practical experience. Forgive me, Jimmy, if I've got that wrong.

You'll be pleased to know that I am playing flute lots these days, Jimmy. More and more in fact. I think I may even be beginning to get somewhere with it.

Not sure I can help, except that, as you must have done too, Jimmy, I've come across loads of people - especially youngsters for some reason - who have an overbite and play flute just fine. In fact, I've recently been trying to develop a sort of overbite in order to get that 'beak' effect to direct the air more downwards. I also think it's something that changes as kids grow up, and it seems to me rare to see a grown man or woman with the sort of pronounced overbite that youngsters have. For this reason, I suppose an ideal would be to get hold of someone who started out with an overbite and then developed out of it. There is one very good flute player that I can think of, not a million miles from you, who might fit the bill. I'll e-mail you this.

In the end, I would say that if this kid is making a good sound, let them.

[MTGuru]

I think what our Tanvey Island resident means is that he's after actual advice from practical experience.

Well, one of the replies here (now two, with yours) is exactly that. Another is a pointer to an off-site thread which includes some of exactly that. And who knows what PMs he received, as he requested.

What's the point of posting a question only to then insult the Chiffboard and the people who've taken the time and effort to respond, or who might yet respond? I sincerely hope he's more patient than that with his student.

OK, here's an actual practical experience.

I've always had a fairly severe overbite, and still do. As a student and the top sax/clarinet player in my school, I spent several years trying to master the flute (silver Boehm) as the "expected" third leg in the wind player's kit. And while I developed a decent embouchure and tone, what wasn't apparent to others (except my teachers) was the distressing physical discomfort I often felt because of the muscular contortions required to work around my problem. As one who went through it, the naive suggestion by people with more normal dentition that an actual physical overbite can somehow be an advantage seems pretty much rubbish to me.

If flute had been my only or main instrument, I suppose I could have persevered and done well; working around your own physical idiosyncracies is part of learning any instrument. Since it wasn't, I wish my teachers had been more honest with me and steered me away from flute so that I could have better spent that time on my other instruments for which I'm more physically suited.

[Tchie]

I found this article which was archived so I copy it here (https://web.archive.org/web/20100115113 ... oosing_one ):

Choosing A Musical Instrument
selecting a band instrument is a big decision

Aug 8, 2006 Chad Criswell
Choosing the right band instrument for your child should be based on more than just what your child wants to play. This article seeks to help you make the right decision.

Not every band instrument is appropriate for every child depending on his or her physical characteristics. Children with thicker, fuller lips or asthma problems simply may not be able to play certain band instruments well. Even if she is initially successful at playing a certain band instrument there may come a time when she seems to stop improving onchoosin it. While this may be a mental or practice issue, it may also simply be the physical characteristics of your child catching up to the physical demands of playing the instrument. Before joining the band always ask your local band director if he or she has tested your child and what band instrument he feels your child would be good on. Whenever possible take the band director's advice. Years of experience tell a band director almost at first glance what kind of band instrument a specific physical characteristic might lend itself to.
If you cannot speak directly with your school's band director you should consider the following issues before going out to purchase a musical instrument:
1. Band instruments are very sensitive to the size of the lips and bone structure of the player. Larger, fuller lips are better suited for larger mouthpieces such as those on the trombone or tuba. Students with a significant overbite will also have difficulties getting the instrument to sit properly on the lips and may be better on clarinet, sax, or flute.
2. Thinner lips are often better suited to high brass instruments or to the woodwind instruments such as the clarinet.
3. Students with severe athsma can still be in the band, but should consult a doctor before going out for the class. A student in such a situation can easily play a percussion instrument if wind instruments are not an option.
4. Students that are obviously going to require dental appliances such as braces or retainers in later years may want to consider a woodwind instrument. Braces can be a big, and sometimes painful, problem with brass instruments. This is often a minor issue however, and should never be the sole reason for moving a student away from a specific band instrument.
5. The drums and the saxophone are always the most popular instruments in the band. For this reason band directors try hard to balance things out and only place students on these instruments that they are certain will be successful. Piano skills are always in demand for percussionists (drummers) and students with piano experience will often have a leg up on their classmates when choosing to be a percussionist.
Remember, just because you have Uncle Bill's old flute sitting in the attic does not mean that your child should play it. Likewise, just because your child wants to play the sax does not mean that he should be allowed to do so. Personal preference is always important, and the happiness and interest of your child is probably the most important aspect contributing to his success. When given a choice always go with the suggestion of your local band director when choosing a band instrument for your child. Once you have chosen a band instrument for your child check out this article to help your new musician be more successful.


Read more at Suite101: Choosing A Musical Instrument: selecting a band instrument is a big decision https://web.archive.org/web/20100115113 ... z3KHtdn4EA

[MTGuru]

Students with a significant overbite will also have difficulties getting the instrument to sit properly on the lips and may be better on clarinet, sax, or flute.

Clarinet or sax, definitely. Flute, it really depends on the severity of the overbite. You really want to be able to start with a position of even lips in order to induce a flute embouchure with bottom lip slightly retracted. And a severe overbite can make that quite uncomfortable, with the lower thrust jaw forward, and the pressure of the upper lip pulling back against the teeth.

Still, it does sound like the author, Iowa band director Chad Crisswell, is aware of the issues.

[DRowe]

I have lurked here for quite a while and have learned a lot, for which I am grateful. I've never felt I could add anything until now.

I play flute with a fairly pronounced overbite. I began when I was 8 years old - a long time ago - and got a tone on my first try. I never had any occasion to even think about the overbite when playing and no on e ever said anything about it. As I'm getting older now, I've thought more about the overbite, since my front teeth are wearing out and I keep biting myself. While contemplating this I started to wonder how it affected my flute playing. It's hard to tell, since I never tried it without an overbite, but I do think it's easier to blow down into the flute. Other than that, I don't know as each individual has to form his own embouchure according to his own physical characteristics.

I can see where some people could have discomfort, but based on my experience, if you can play a flute all right without any problems, you wouldn't need to think twice about it.

I hope this helps.