Best flute options for beginners

[seonag]

I played silver flute for ~18 years and I took up tin whistle a year ago; now I'm thinking it's time to get a celtic flute.

I don't have a lot of spare money, so can't go for an expensive flute, but I don't want to waste my time on something that's not playable either.
I was wondering about something like an M&E flute because they're in a price range I could afford now. They have a good sound on youtube videos from what I can tell and seem to play well (not knowing anything about celtic flutes really, but knowing a little about flutes).
Reviews seem to be generally positive.
Can people tell me if that's correct? Are they a good starting place? Are there better options in a similar price range? (If so, can people please tell me what the pros/cons of those other options are, as compared to the M&E flutes?)

Secondly, I was wondering whether it's better to go with polymer or wood? I live in a hot/variable climate (Australia) and I know nothing about caring for a wooden flute, so I thought a polymer type one might be a safer option to begin with, but are they inferior in terms of sound/playability, etc? What do people think?

Finally, what do people think about keyed vs keyless for beginners?
Obviously I've played a keyed flute for many years, but it's quite a different thing to celtic music and I'm trying to get the hang of moving my fingers quickly enough... I guess I wonder whether keys might just get in the way of learning at this stage.
But then I don't want to limit my options if keys are essential in the long run.
(Though if I like playing and continue at it, I'd certainly be hoping to buy a decent flute in a few years and could get a keyed one then - as long as keyless would suit the first few years of playing).

If anyone can help with all my questions, I'd be hugely grateful.

[cquick]

My personal preference is to look closely at a Copley delrin. Very good value, a solid maker who is honest and easy to work with. There are others of course but this is my choice.

[Steve Bliven]

Welcome to C&F. You'll probably get lots of differing opinions on this—but most will tell you there's no "best" option—just a number of options to consider.

My thoughts, for what they are worth:
- a keyless flute will carry you well into playing Irish music (most folk here tend to avoid the "celtic" label). Estimates range as high as 80% of Irish Traditional music can be played without keys.
- there are lots of good delrin (polymer) flutes available, either new from makers like Copley & Boegli (US), Garry Somers (Brazil), Rob Forbes (US), Francois Baubet (Ireland), Vincenzo Di Mauro (Ireland) or used on the Chiff & Fipple Use Instrument Exchange. Delrin is almost foolproof as far as care goes. They stand up to variations in heat, humidity, and even battles (so I'm told). There is debate as to whether they sound as good as wood, but in session playing I doubt that anyone but the most pure would notice. Delrin is also generally cheaper than wood.
- Any of the above will suffice to start playing Irish music and may take you years into your explorations.

Hope this helps in your quest. Mostly, just enjoy the music.

Best wishes.

Steve

[seonag]

Thanks so much everyone - I'll look into the flute options people listed. Sounds like it's okay to go for keyless and to avoid wood to start with anyway. Thank you!

Thanks also for the heads-up re using the word 'celtic', Steve. I just used it because my family/tradition/music is Scottish, not Irish.

[griff]

I've had a Tony Dixon polymer keyless flute for about 13 years. It's what I started with and I played it for a year before buying a Copley and Boegli keyed flute. The keyed flute is a work of art and David was great to work with. It is my choice when I'm planning to play for more than a few minutes, but I'll have to say that the Dixon polymer flute probably gets as much playing time because it is always together, standing by and I can pick it up and play a couple of tunes at a moments notice, like when I'm waiting for the tea water to boil.

The short answer is that I recommend a polymer keyless flute to begin with. You may choose a different flute later on, but the polymer flute will still be available for you.

[seonag]

I've looked at all the flute options and I'm more confused than ever now! lol

I guess I'll just try to work out which works in my price range, and which I can get quickly.

Just to double check - what do people think of the M&E flutes? Are they not as well regarded as the ones listed in this thread?

[Jayhawk]

I quite like my M&E...been playing an M&E R&R model for about 8 years now and have tried on 2-3 different flutes in that time and always gone back to the M&E. I don't think you'd go wrong with any of the makers listed above, either, but the M&E is a good flute, too, and a huge value if you go for a keyed flute. As a full disclaimer, though, I have a keyed Francois Baubet delrin flute on the way right now (through customs already and with the US postal service heading towards my house as I type).

Keys are not essential, but now that I have them I wouldn't go back.

Oh, Walt Sweet makes a phenomenal delrin flute that's really not expensive. He's worth a look, too.

As for material, lots of folks swear wood is the only way to go for a really good flute, but I'm not in that camp. I do think wood is much prettier, but my climate in the US ranges from about 105ish in the summer down to -10 in the winter. I had a great antique cocus flute for about a year, but I was so darn paranoid about it that I didn't enjoy having and playing it. For my psychological peace of mind, delrin or ebonite is the way to go...but that's just me.

Let us know what you end up getting and what you think of it.

Eric

[jim stone]

Here's the Sweetheart Shannon, badly played but...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgX_ieOLN_k

[Feadoggie]

I'd like to add a caveat or two to what has already been suggested here.

As has been said, There is no "best" flute for beginners. There are a lot of good flutes available. Certain flutes tend to "fit" certain players well, others less well. We all have different mouths, different hands, different blowing styles, different expectations and different tonal preferences. You have to determine what is best for you.

The way things go around here is that if this thread has legs and enough members sign in to share their thoughts you will in the end have a rather complete list of all the polymer flute makers out there. And we are well on our way already.

Many of us have owned and/or played most of the flutes that will be mentioned here. I doubt we could all agree on one or two flutes as the best place to start. I know what I favor (Copley, Summers). But I am not you. Just because I get on well with a certain flute that is no guarantee that you will get on as well with that flute.

My suggestion is that you get out and about and see/try as many flutes as you can. Determine what works for you. There are good makers in your part of the world that understand your climate. Look around, make some friends and buy what works for you.

The only alternative is to become a serial flute buyer/seller. Many of us have traveled that route. And we all ended up with a variety of flutes from different makers.

The best flute is the one you have in your hands and held up to your lips. Get one with a decent rep and get going.

And there is no reason you can't play traditional music on your silver flute. Joanie Madden does, as have others. Who is going call Joanie Madden out for using a Boehm flute at this point? It's more about the music, less about the particular flute.

Welcome to the world of "Celtic" flutes.

Feadoggie

[Thomaston]

A Doug Tipple PVC flute is also a good option, assuming the slightly wider finger stretch isn't an issue.

[MadmanWithaWhistle]

What flute you should get depends on your end goal. If you're just looking to noodle around a bit, playing slower tunes like Sally Gardens and Star of the County Down, then sure, a 'beginner' flute or a Tipple would suit you just fine.

However, if your endgame is to eventually play reels and jigs at speed in a session, my advice is to buy the best instrument you can afford, or else spend even more money down the road picking up the one you should have bought to begin with. If you're seriously considering the wooden flute, my experience has been that there really are no bargains to be had. Delrin is cheaper than wood yes, but not by much, and I've noticed trends of much shoddier craftsmanship in low-cost delrin flutes than in their higher-priced equivalents by makers who also work in wood. Beware of what reviews you give weight to- the skill of the player often is a significant influence on their opinion. A good wooden flute runs about $700 USD. Be suspicious of anything significantly under or over that. Delrin costs a little less, but again, anything significantly low is going to have sacrifices made somewhere.

[Jayhawk]

What flute you should get depends on your end goal. If you're just looking to noodle around a bit, playing slower tunes like Sally Gardens and Star of the County Down, then sure, a 'beginner' flute or a Tipple would suit you just fine.

However, if your endgame is to eventually play reels and jigs at speed in a session, my advice is to buy the best instrument you can afford, or else spend even more money down the road picking up the one you should have bought to begin with. If you're seriously considering the wooden flute, my experience has been that there really are no bargains to be had. Delrin is cheaper than wood yes, but not by much, and I've noticed trends of much shoddier craftsmanship in low-cost delrin flutes than in their higher-priced equivalents by makers who also work in wood. Beware of what reviews you give weight to- the skill of the player often is a significant influence on their opinion. A good wooden flute runs about $700 USD. Be suspicious of anything significantly under or over that. Delrin costs a little less, but again, anything significantly low is going to have sacrifices made somewhere.

A good maker will put out a good flute regardless of material. I just don't agree with your assessment. Which makers did you note making inferior instruments in delrin compared to their wooden flutes? I've owned and played (friend's flutes, so played multiple times...enough to actually get a feel for the flute) far too many flutes over the past 15 years, and good makers make consistently good flutes. There is a huge bias against non-wooden flutes, but the single best sounding flute I've ever heard and played is a 100+ year old Chappell flute made of ebonite.

I also don't think you have to put down $700 for a "good" wooden keyless flute...or a good non-wooden flute. There are a ton of flutes in the sub $500 range that are more than good enough since the player is the very most important factor in how a flute sounds. And even if you can afford to toss down $1,000 on a flute from the best makers out there...you may end up deciding in future another flute is what you really want. I've yet to come across someone on this forum who sticks with one single flute for their entire playing lifetime.

Just my $.02...and I'm not adverse to laying down money on an instrument you really like, but I think you need to play for a while before deciding what you want. I don't regret one bit buying my Selmer Mark VI alto sax back in the mid-80s, but I didn't buy it right off the bat...I played different instruments for a few years before I decided jazz and the Selmer is where I wanted to go at the time.

Eric

[seonag]

I guess my concern is that I don't know anything about Irish flutes at all, so I'm flying blind. I also only know one person who has an Irish flute so have very few options for looking at and trying them.

If I were to wait and save for an expensive flute, I may end up with a flute that doesn't suit me, or find I just don't really play much and prefer whistle anyway. If I get something that I can afford now, that's playable, produces a decent sound and that's easy to care for in our very variable climate, I think that will be the best place to start. If I end up loving playing flute, I'll be happy to save for a good one later when I have an idea of what I want and I'll gladly keep the cheaper flute on my desk set up ready to play.

I've looked at all the flutes people mentioned, listened to sound clips/youtube videos and done currency conversions, etc and it's looking like my preferred options (in my price range) are the M&E, Walt Sweet Shannon, Garry Somers pratten model or maybe a Copley without tuning slide. I'm not sure whether a tuning slide is necessary? What do people think?

If it is, then my options are the M&E, Sweet Shannon or Somers pratten.
Does anyone have any more information or opinions on any of those three to consider that might help me make a decision?
(It's possible I might be able to get a Francois Baubet if it would make a significant difference, but the extra $100+AU could go towards a better flute in the long run... what do people think?)

Thanks again so much for all the advice!

[Jayhawk]

In a delrin flute, most makers make the tenon long enough to tune with, so a slide is not a necessity. However, as a flute player, you're probably aware some players blow sharper or flatter than others, so if you know you have such a tendency...a tuning slide can be nice. If you're pretty average tuning-wise when blowing, any of the flutes will do fine.

I think Walt Sweet's Shannon is the best bang for the buck of any low cost flute out there. He'll make it either with inline tone holes or offset 3rd and 6th holes (which is his default). If you prefer them inline (I didn't love the offset - I was accustomed to normal inline holes), just ask for them that way.

That said, all of the flutes you mention would serve you quite well. I've played or owned all but the Somers, but players on this board I trust have given the Somers good reviews.

Eric

[I.D.10-t]

I can't remember do any of these flutes have the option of having keys added latter? I thought M&E did something like that. Might be worth looking into if that is something that might be down the road.