Contacting Burke and/or Colin Goldie

[PiperMike904]

I'm new to this page and have been playing the whistle and uilleann pipes for a little less than a year. At the advice of a few about a year ago, I ordered an eight dollar acorn D whistle off of Amazon for me to start learning pennywhistle while my pipes were being made.

I find myself now wanting to learn tunes on the whistle before learning them on the pipes. Being that I play the whistle and practice it quite a bit recently, I would like to upgrade to something nicer. I've basically narrowed my research to Colin Goldie and Burke.

I made attempts to contact both makers. Goldie I very recently wrote an email to so I'm waiting. Burke, it's been two weeks. I'm actually ready to place an order but need information and have questions before I place my order. Has anyone had issues contacting these makers?

I want a higher end D whistle and a low D. The sound of the low D whistle fascinates me.

1. what is the difference between Burkes EZ and pro viper?

2. I don't play professionally but I may participate in sessions when my skill becomes a little better. Is it better for me to get a narrow bore or session whistle? Also Goldies website does not differentiate. Would Goldie's regular D whistles be like a session or narrow bore?

I apologize if any of this information is been posted somewhere before. If it has could someone kindly provide links to where I may research this information?


Also if these makers do not respond to my inquiries, is it safe to place an order with them?

[MTGuru]

To contact Colin Goldie you can try an e-mail or PM to Brigitte, who is a poster here:

memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=1581

Brigitte's recent post also exlains the e-mail situation, and that it is easier to contact Colin by telephone:

viewtopic.php?p=1153998#p1153998

Keep in mind that some makers may be taking a break in January after a busy holiday season, before ramping up again.

I haven't heard of persistent ordering problems with either Burke or Goldie. Burkes are Burkes, so you'll get the current model you order. But Goldies come in several variations that you should specify by consulting with Colin before ordering.

I would like to upgrade to something nicer.

Of course, your Oak D is a fine whistle. So you're not really upgrading, just choosing something different.

Would Goldie's regular D whistles be like a session or narrow bore?

IMO, the Goldie high D is quite unique in tone and feel and response, compared to most other high Ds. It's also quite loud, so definitely more the equivalent of a "session" bore.

[ytliek]

Welcome to the whistle forum.

I have the Oak/Acorn whistle and it plays nicely. I also have a few other whistles (some higher end) and they play nicely.

Give that Oak some time playing while you decide which whistle to pursue. Enjoy playing!

[Feadoggie]

1. what is the difference between Burkes EZ and pro viper?

2. I don't play professionally but I may participate in sessions when my skill becomes a little better. Is it better for me to get a narrow bore or session whistle? Also Goldies website does not differentiate. Would Goldie's regular D whistles be like a session or narrow bore?

1. The bottom hole layout is different between the two Burke low D whistles. The EZ has slightly smaller holes to make them easier for those with smaller hands or slimmer fingers to cover. It is by no means a radical difference visually. The smaller holes also result in a slightly weaker, lower volume, note for the first octave E. Again it is not a radical difference. Some people will not notice it, others will. The Viper has a more even low E volume. Now the EZ has been around a long time. My Composite EZ low D dates back to the year 2000 I think. Michael Burke has made many changes to his designs since the EZ was conceived. One change he has made is that the lowest hole on the aluminum Viper now rotates so that it can be positioned best for your particular hand size and geometry. And that is where most players have an issue with the stretch of these low D whistles in my experience. With that innovation I do not think it is worth looking at the EZ configuration unless you have rather slim fingers. The rotating BH3 hole on the Viper seals the deal for the broadest number of players. So if you go Burke, I would recommend that you go for the aluminum Viper. The brass Viper does not have the rotating bottom hole AFAIK, I could be wrong on that though.

2. Narrow bore versus session bore. OK. One thing I say a lot around here is the "it is all relative". One maker's narrow bore may be another maker's standard bore. In general we can say some comparative things about bore sizes. Narrow bore whistle will offer a sweeter high end. The high end will be easier to blow. The bottom end will be less strong and perhaps require lighter, finer breath control. The session bore will, conversely, have the stronger, more stable, harder blowing low end. The top end will require more push on the session bore whistle. The session bore will be the louder whistle generally. You may not always want a loud whistle. Most whistles with a ~1/2" bore do just fine in most situations.

The choice of which bore you buy is a personal preference thing and up to you.

So what does this mean in Burke and Goldie whistles? Remember "it's all relative".

Well, a Goldie is more of session bore. It is a loud whistle. But it is as good a whistle as you can buy. It is a professional grade whistle in all regards. Many touring pros depend on Goldies and will play nothing else.

Burkes? The narrow bore is sweeter. It is well balanced and plays easily. The feel of the narrow bore tube in the hands is similar to the size of the tubes on Gens, Acorns, Oaks, Feadogs, etc.. It is one of my favorite whistles. It is not a quiet whistle. It will hold up in a session quite well.

The Burke Session bore has the stronger bottom D. Voicing favors the lower end over the higher end but it is still quite well balanced and it is easy to get used to. The top end does not need much push at all. (It's all relative) It takes more air than the narrow bore, but not much more. It is louder but not much more. (It's all relative).

You will see Burkes in the hands of just as many touring pros as you will see Goldies. Burkes are also as good a whistle as you can buy.

The big thing to keep in mind here is that the Goldie and the Burke are totally different whistles in concept and practice.

The sound of the Goldie has a more complex tone profile, more overtones. Burkes sound pure and crisp, more fundamental.

Goldie uses a narrow windway profile on his standard set-up. The constrained windway requires the player to blow harder to generate the air velocity needed for each note. (It's all relative) Colin can vary the windway height if you know what you need. Burke whistles are more free blowing. They don't use a lot of air though. (It's all relative) They are quite air efficient IMO. The variation in dynamics is greater and easier to effect on the Burke.

Goldie uses an all metal mouthpiece configuration. This needs to be warmed up before you play in cool conditions to guard against condensation build-up. Burke uses a delrin lined head to address the condensation issues.

I could say more but I will stop there.

Be patient on the communications. These are both private makers. They are busy making whistles. They don't sit at the computer all day. You can also have faith in these makers. They are among the best in the business as far as customer satisfaction goes.

So keep these things in mind as you make your decision. Or just buy one of each key from both makers. Goldie and Burke are as good as it gets. You can buy a different whistle but you can't buy a better whistle.

Welcome to the party.

Feadoggie

[PiperMike904]

Appreciate all this information guys. I have made contact with Brigitte through email. She wrote me a lengthy reply.

I have gorilla hands so I don't think wide finger spacing will be a big deal. I've read that that is overcome through practice anyway.

I am going to get to test drive an Overton low D in Febuary at a Tionol, so I'll probably wait to make my order until then.

[pancelticpiper]

1. what is the difference between Burkes EZ and pro viper?

2. Is it better for me to get a narrow bore or session whistle?

I have been told, as I recall by Michael Burke himself, that the only difference between the two Burke Low D's, "Pro Viper" and "EZ", is the positioning of the bottom hole, "hole 6", that is, the hole from which the note E emits. Of course Michael might well have changed the hole configuration over the years, this was around five years ago when he told me that.

Now, the low E on a Burke Pro Viper is already weaker than its neighbors Bottom D and low F#, so the EZ would of course exacerbate this problem. It's the Achilles Heel of Low Whistles, getting a good strong low E, and getting the low notes in general as strong as possible without making the high notes, particularly high B, too harsh. There's a sweet middle range, say from G to G, where most Low Whistles are good. What separates the great whistles from the rest is getting a strong low range, with a good low E, and still having a relatively civilised high range, with a good high B.

Also all Burkes take more air (quantity of air, not force of air) than practically any other make, meaning that you can't play as long musical phrases. This really comes back to bite you when playing airs. Also Burke Low Ds have a combination of a fat tube and widely-spaced upperhand holes which makes it, for me, less ergonomic than other makes.

So, even though I played a Burke Pro Viper for years, and that whistle has many good qualities, for a Low D I would try a Goldie and an MK. Both have great tuning, a strong low range including a strong low E, and far more efficiency than the Burke. (Less air goes in, but just as much tone comes out.)

If you're going for a Burke high D, I'd get the narrow bore. I've played a session bore Burke high D for several years, and yes you can get used to it, but the high notes are never going to be as nimble as they are on a narrower-bore whistle. The Burke narrow bore high D plays more like a traditional whistle.

For a high D you might want to try a Freeman Tweaked D, which will play as well or better than some whistles costing many times more.

For a reasonably priced extremely sweet-playing professional high D you can try the Killarney. It plays much like a Sindt, which many consider the best high D on the planet, but at a fraction of the price. (I have both and I do prefer the Sindt, but the Killarney is very good.) For myself, I want a whistle with a sweet easy nimble high range, not one where I have to shout out those notes.