benhall.1 wrote:Meanwhile, if we do decide to take the 19c English whistle as the start of it (as far as whistles-as-we-know-them are concerned), then that would make the flute in Irish music much more established than the whistle.
How radical!
Maybe.
Argh.
"If you take music out of this world, you will have nothing but a ball of fire." - Balochi musician
benhall.1 wrote:Meanwhile, if we do decide to take the 19c English whistle as the start of it (as far as whistles-as-we-know-them are concerned), then that would make the flute in Irish music much more established than the whistle.
How radical!
Maybe.
Yes. But what key were they in. That's the question.
Gordon wrote: Yes. But what key were they in. That's the question.
? Whatever key the length of wood or bone or metal determined them to be ?
BTW, what key was ... Whosie Whatsie's (for some reason I keep thinking "Paddy Canny" but that's not right) bicycle-pump whistle in ? I think that whalebone whistle Paul McGrattan played was in F.
Deja Fu: The sense that somewhere, somehow, you've been kicked in the head exactly like this before.
Steve Bliven wrote:One of the directions this discussion could head into is the dreaded "What is ITM?". As Mr. Hamilton mentions, and Nano's submission above shows, there clearly were flutes of one form or another in Ireland. (Nobody's mentioned the military fife and drum corps yet, so I will.) Surely people in Ireland in the late 1700s and early 1800s were familiar with flutes. But if ITM equates to dance music, then Nano's submission might not apply and other early records of flutes being played in public settings might not either. Mr. Hamilton's book covers much of this ground and is worthy of a thorough reading.
Best wishes.
Steve
Yeah, basically I was just throwing the idea out there for something for people to chew on. We know that fife bands were solidly a part of Irish musical expression, but the context of transverse flutes of any kind (homemade or otherwise) as a pastime among the lower classes, IOW those who don't rate mention in the society news, so far remains a mystery. The lowly could have been playing flutes up and down the Five Fifths for all we know, but contemporary published interest was mainly directed at the upper ends of society, and its attentions would hardly have been directed downward to the humble part of the world, which in such times would not have been seen as being of any cultural value worth noting. Thus it shouldn't perplex us that we are left with pretty much nothing about this question, either way. I only point out a possibility based on cultural and material availability. It would appear that we don't really know that flutes weren't played commonly, for just as much as we don't know that they were.
Noted tune collector and piper Canon James Goodman is referred to as having played flute while growing up in Ventry. He was born in 1825.
Deja Fu: The sense that somewhere, somehow, you've been kicked in the head exactly like this before.
Since we're going completely and beserkly off topic have you seen these Alban Faust reindeer horn whistles.
Obviously they are lathe turned so not really related but
two thousand four hundred euro, for an a whistle.
I would count that as a luxury but damn they are lovley. http://www.albanfaust.se/en/the-instrum ... -sale.html
Here's a great reason to own Bb and Eb flutes and whistles: http://www.kan-music.co.uk/
If you loved Flook, you'll be smitten. Brian Finnegan only gets better and better. Unstoppable!
Another thumbs-up to my nephew, Chris, who brought this around to us a number of topics back.
Charlie Gravel
“I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.”
― Oscar Wilde
Cathy Wilde wrote:Noted tune collector and piper Canon James Goodman is referred to as having played flute while growing up in Ventry. He was born in 1825.
Thanks, Cat. It does make one wonder what larger instrumental climate he would have grown up in.
"If you take music out of this world, you will have nothing but a ball of fire." - Balochi musician
And then there's this from our friends at Wikipedia, which says:
The former Dublin Philharmonic Orchestra was active from the 1700s to the 1930s. The famous Violinist,Conductor and Impresario Pierre Van Maldere conducting from 1751.
Granted I'm extrapolating, but I imagine SOMEONE managed to give a flute lesson or two, and maybe even got out of town to teach folks at the big houses once in a while. From there, who knows? Dublin was somewhat of a cultural capital and Ireland is hardly Ulan Bator so I suspect that flutes -- the same as classical training and sheet-music-reading -- were not completely unheard-of.
Deja Fu: The sense that somewhere, somehow, you've been kicked in the head exactly like this before.
