I keep reading posts about how you only need 6 holes...

[Mr.Gumby]

I think you'll find my point was that the argument a piece is not specifically WRITTEN in a particular key doesn't really wash. I am not anti key and can see the point of them when choosing 'fiddle keys' but, for example, many people play Splendid Isolation a tone up from the Gm and that works perfectly well. But you're right in making the your point that keys extend your range/choices.

[Clover]

I think you'll find my point was that the argument a piece is not specifically WRITTEN in a particular key doesn't really wash. I am not anti key and can see the point of them when choosing 'fiddle keys' but, for example, many people play Splendid Isolation a tone up from the Gm and that works perfectly well. But you're right in making the your point that keys extend your range/choices.

Uh...let's see if I can clarify since you seemed to have missed my point. I didn't mean a single piece of music was an argument for having keys. I meant it simply serves as an example of a tune of which there are many where keys would be beneficial.

My bad, I should have been precise and succinct so that any possible nit-picking in a topic so controversial might be avoided .

[Mr.Gumby]

Uh...let's see if I can clarify since you seemed to have missed my point.

I don't think I did. I reacted to psychodonald's post.

[Clover]

Uh...let's see if I can clarify since you seemed to have missed my point.

I don't think I did. I reacted to psychodonald's post.

Okay, so you are reacting to his post and his notion that keys might be useful because he only gave an example song or two. Don't look now Gumby, but there are a lot of tunes where a key or two might be appreciated. I'd wager you already know that.

[NicoMoreno]

Not quite there Clover - he's reacting to the notion that a tune is "written in" a specific key, and therefore must always be played in that key. In Irish music the key of a tune is fungible.

[I.D.10-t]

Not to many tunes need to jump from one key signature to the next as badly as the Five Dollar Job Schottische does.

There is an old saying about a carpenter that only has a hammer in his toolbox. The part no one talks about is that he never learned how that hammer is supposed to be used.

[Clover]

Not quite there Clover - he's reacting to the notion that a tune is "written in" a specific key, and therefore must always be played in that key. In Irish music the key of a tune is fungible.

I'm confused. Merriam Webster for "fungible":
Being of such a nature that one part or quantity may be replaced by another equal part or quantity in the satisfaction of an obligation.

Are you (and Mr.Gumby) saying an Irish tune is written in a specific key and must always be played in that key? Or are you saying just the opposite, that a tune may float amongst keys?

[jim stone]

Wiki 'Fungibility'

Fungibility is the property of a good or a commodity whose individual units are capable of mutual substitution, such as crude oil, shares in a company, bonds, precious metals, or currencies.

It refers only to the equivalence of each unit of a commodity with other units of the same commodity. Fungibility does not describe or relate to any exchange of one commodity for some other, different commodity.

As an example: if Alice lends Bob a $10 bill, she does not care if she is repaid with the same $10 bill, two $5 bills, a $5 bill and five $1 bills or bunch of coins that total $10 as currency is fungible. However, if Bob borrows Alice's car she will most likely be upset if Bob returns a different vehicle--even a vehicle that is the same make and model--as automobiles are not fungible with respect to ownership. However, gasoline is fungible and though Alice may have a preference for a particular brand and grade of gasoline, her primary concern may be that the level of fuel be the same (or more) as it was when she lent the vehicle to Bob.

[Steve Bliven]

Or, to get back to the subject at had, do either Bob or Alice play a keyed flute?

Best wishes.

Steve

[NicoMoreno]

Clover, read the post Gumby was responding to - in that post, the poster makes a statement that to play a specific tune, which is "in Bb", one must have a keyed flute. Gumby responded, pointing out that he plays that tune and it is not "in Bb". So the notion that a tune has a specific, fixed key, is simply not true. He even gave another example of a tune that's regularly played in a couple keys.

[I.D.10-t]

It is all ridiculous. If a singer's range doesn't fit a tune you don't say it's not in that key! The now dead players of this music worried that people would steal their music, so they kept it as a trade secret. Believe it or not, copyright hasn't always existed and people use to hold their cards close to their chest.

Sadly, I probably gave the best reason to have keys.

[Clover]

Clover, read the post Gumby was responding to - in that post, the poster makes a statement that to play a specific tune, which is "in Bb", one must have a keyed flute. Gumby responded, pointing out that he plays that tune and it is not "in Bb". So the notion that a tune has a specific, fixed key, is simply not true. He even gave another example of a tune that's regularly played in a couple keys.

Okay Nico I think I understand. Tunes are not necessarily tied to a particular key.

I thought they were because I've read about how 95% of trad was meant for D, and the other 5% were meant for G and A. But I guess that's wrong, because I know at least the C and Bb keys are popular too.

So much to learn.

[woodfluter]

Some tunes fit really well on the fiddle in one key but not so well in a different key.
Open strings, cross-bowings, interval leaps.
So if you're playing with a fiddler, he/she might really want to keep it in F, or C, or Bb.
Actually, E nat. is quite a good fiddle key.

So if you are playing it by yourself or with other flutes, no problem.
If your'e playing with other instruments, sometimes matters.

'Course, I'm considering other than just Irish tunes. So ignore if not so relevant.

[NicoMoreno]

Tunes are not necessarily tied to a particular key.

I thought they were because I've read about how 95% of trad was meant for D, and the other 5% were meant for G and A. But I guess that's wrong, because I know at least the C and Bb keys are popular too.

These are not mutually exclusive things. Although I'd put the percentages very differently, probably 75% to 90% of irish traditional music (trad? which trad? irish, schottish, old time, blues??) in D or G and their related modes (I say it this way to cover Em, Bm, Adorian, Amix, etc etc - basically 1 or 2 sharps). This is very instrument dependent, too. And very arguable. There are a lot of tunes in A and C, too. Probably as you move away from 1 or 2 sharps the number decreases in relation to how far you are...

At any rate, you still get tunes that are regularly played in either D or G, or A or G, or... etc etc.

A couple examples off the top of my head:
The fair haired cannavans goes great in D or G
Tear the Callico is regularly played in D or G, and Seamus Ennis had a nice version of it in A. (To be fair, there are sometimes structural differences between the different keyed versions).
Tommy Reck often played the Fairy Reel in D and G.
Auntie Mary had a Canary works fine in A, G or D.

That's just quick, I'm sure I could list a bunch more that I play in different keys depending on the mood.

[Doc Jones]

Every flute player I know is "serious". It's almost impossible to play the flute while smiling.

That said, I'm far from a serious fluter. However, I can have any flute in the world that I want. The most amazing flutes keyed and keyless come through the shop on a daily basis. Still, my personal flute is a keyless.

When I go to a gig or a session, I take the keyless and a quiver of bamboo flutes and whistles. If the tune is in a different key, I use a bamboo or whistle. Certainly there are some tunes that must be played with keys due to odd accidentals. I seem to play mandolin or guitar on those tunes. YMMV

I do own a Boehm that I occasionally use for playing jazz, blues or other genres that are full of ridiculous accidentals. There is a reason the simple-system keyed flute nearly went extinct the day the Boehm was invented. It's vastly better for weird stuff in weird keys. But for IrTrad and folk stuff? Just give me a keyless and my quiver of whistles and bamboos and I'm happy.

Doc