Allow me to introduce myself...

[Nanohedron]

I am limited to a keyless one

Flutemakers will make you left handed models. That aside, I could think of a number of very fine lefthanded fluteplayers who play right handed keyed flutes as if they flute was left handed.

Right, my understanding was that given how fine-tuned it is, a flute's working blowing edge is customarily only on one side. I'm not 100% certain, but I don't know if any flutemakers intentionally make switchable keyless flutes; I would think that over time the edge you blow from would get too much wear from the skin to sustain a dual edge's best integrity, which is not to say it wouldn't still be playable...but then what would be the point of cutting two edges? Oh, and there's lip insets. Blowing against one of those would be a gamble.

But as feadoggie suggests, one can always learn to play other-handed...

I'm curious why most of us don't, that we have some sort of intuitive preference for hand placement when it isn't defensible by any outward logic. I'm righthanded. When I first picked up any kind of whistly-thingy, for me, like most other righties, it was always left hand on top. I have no idea where I learned that; maybe it was from watching people, maybe not.

[Mr.Gumby]

Right, my understanding was that given how fine-tuned it is, a flute's working blowing edge is customarily only on one side. I'm not 100% certain, but I don't know if any flutemakers intentionally make switchable keyless flutes

Yes, you'd think that. Yet I can think of a few people who very successfully play Rudalls that appear not specifically intended for left handed playing. I don't know how that works either but it does.

Same people would pick up any flute and play it by the way, so it's not that they picked their own flutes to suit their playing.

[Nanohedron]

True, I know one or two who could get great tone out of a brick!

[MTGuru]

What am I missing here? Not trying to pick an argument or anything either. It just befuddles me why, from a behavioral physiology perspective, you would have to have left handed pipes, whistles or flutes.

When it comes to conventions such as handedness orientation, I think it's arguable that things don't happen for no reason. If you look at a variety of instruments from widely different cultures over a long period of time and you find that a particular orientation predominates, then it's worth asking why.

Yes, cultural conservatism can play a part. But innovation and choice are also forces. And given our species-wide trend to right dominance, you can find morphologically similar instruments from China to Ireland using the same default orientation.

One hypothesis might be that cerebral hemispheric lateralization plays a part. Take fingered string instruments. If in right handed people the left brain is dominant for language articulation and the right brain for visual pattern processing, then given our cross-wiring (left brain controls right side and vice versa), it might make sense for the right hand to assume the role of articulating the notes, while the left hand takes on the more spatially complex task of fingering.

Another hypothesis might be that the dominant hand gets assigned to more physically active role. And with simple winds, given the sequential nature of fingering, I think you'll find the bottom hand is more active than the top hand; if only marginally; but marginally may be enough to tilt the orientation one way. Similarly on keyboards, the more active role of the treble melody hand would orient the treble side of the instrument to the dominant hand.

Clearly, our brains and bodies are adaptive enough to learn either whatever convention dictates or its opposite. But that there ARE conventions suggests to me that there's more to it than the arbitrariness your post implies.

[whistlecollector]

But how does having a particular dominant hand make necessary to turn a set of pipes around or have to re-tool to make left handed keys and such? All of these instruments still require the player to use both hands, arms, wrists, knees, etc.. I still do not see how it should make a difference which side or position you place the dominant hand. Surely it is just as difficult a task to learn no matter where you start.

I've taught guitar for 50 years now. (decided I am done with that this year actually). I do not see why there need be a left-handed instrument and I rarely suggest a left-handed beginner go out to buy one. Shouldn't matter.

What am I missing here? Not trying to pick an argument or anything either. It just befuddles me why, from a behavioral physiology perspective, you would have to have left handed pipes, whistles or flutes.

Feadoggie

I doubt it has anything to do with dominant handedness, because as you say, playing any wind instrument or keyboard or string instrument really requires the full dexterity of both sets of fingers. I think it just largely comes down to "which way did the player put the instrument in his hands the very first time he tried playing?" Chances are good that if your first foray into whistle or recorder or whatever was right hand above -- and regardless of your own handedness -- then you'll always find "playing left handed" will be more comfortable. Play that way long enough and, when it comes time to try a big whistle or a simple system flute or pipes, you'll be in the market for a "left handed" instrument, just because that's what's now most natural to play.

And of course, this whole right handed / left handed thing is nothing new. Museums are full of old recorders, shawms, bassoons and so forth that have keywork and extra holes built in so that any player would be able to use the instrument. Presumably playing right hand on top was much more commonly found back in the day. Perhaps modern teaching methods (e.g., teaching recorder / fluteophone / penny whistle in schools over the last century) has put paid to the whole "left handed" playing thing for most people. Certainly by the time they get into band, they're going to have to switch to right hand below style of playing, because no modern wind instruments are designed to be played either way (and only the french horn is designed to be played "left handed" anyway).

I do actually have a "left handed" flageolet, so there was clearly a market for invert wind instruments even into the 19th century.

Cheers

[Peter Duggan]

I've taught guitar for 50 years now. (decided I am done with that this year actually). I do not see why there need be a left-handed instrument and I rarely suggest a left-handed beginner go out to buy one. Shouldn't matter.

I'm right-handed, play left-handed guitar and bass and have a need for left-handed instruments. You know why?

But agreed I wouldn't normally recommend left-handed pupils to play left-handed, and (having come to regard left-handed guitar/bass as 'natural' for me) don't personally see it as a strongly 'handed' thing.

[ytliek]

@ScotsJim, Thanks for the thread as you really got one going. I'm still just a newbie-ish whistler and I've tried learning every way. Early inquiry (tutorials) and whistle purchases with accompanying CDs/booklets for the most part show the left hand on top. There may be a slight mention for the lefties in the tutorials saying either/or hand, however, from what I've experienced it has been left hand on top. I suppose it shouldn't matter afterall.

[Feadoggie]

Clearly, our brains and bodies are adaptive enough to learn either the whatever the convention dictates or its opposite. But that there ARE conventions suggests to me that there's more to it than your post implies.

Yes, MTGuru, your points are good ones. Great post. I spent a lot of time in labs studying some of this stuff in my younger days. So I have opinions. I should maybe keep them to myself.

Our conventions regarding instrument handedness are likely due to the statistics of right hand dominance in humans.

But, as you also put very well, the human mind can adapt. It is a far more plastic organ than it was once believed to be.

And you rightly bring up the musical instrument equivalent to the "elephant in the room" when we talk about handedness. Why are there so few left-handed pianos? And yet there are and have been so many successful left-handed pianists. You are apparently current with the literature which does suggest that due to the layout of the keyboard right-handed pianists have a very small but measurable advantage over left-handed players but only in so much as the repertoire of the music used in the tests was right-hand heavy in the melodic content. I want a re-match with barrel-house and stride piano music or any other music requiring a good left hand. We know what those results would suggest.

My theory is that we should not present instruments to young players as being either inherently right-handed or left-handed. It should be more a matter of "here it is and here's how you might play it". There is an enormous amount of symmetry to human motor skills until we get down to very fine motor control. The mind and body, when properly motivated, will succeed in doing what it needs to do.

I would like to apologize to the OP for causing all this thread drift.

Feadoggie

[piperjoe]

Jim,

Do whatever feels right, there are no right/left hand police in the world of music, unlike primary school! My wife is a lefty, but was forced to write right-handed in elementry school in California...

As has been discussed, pipers use any of the available possibilities, and many flute makers will build a "lefty" instrument if required.

Casey Burns is an excellent flute maker in Washington State and I believe he supplied an eight keyed left-handed flute for the Boys of the Loch's Cathal McConnell. Unlike recorders, keyless flutes don't have any double holes and are even easier to make left-handed. However, some have the third and sixth holes offset and would have to be a special order.

Oddly, Seamus Eagan of Solas, plays flute with the left hand on top, and whistle with the right hand on top. I have no idea how the hell he does that!

As far as learning the pipes, you should have started when you were five or six, but you didn't so the earliest you can possibly start is tomorrow. Get at it laddie! And welcome to the forum.

JD

[Tunborough]

Just sayin'...

Being, as part of my job (I'm an accountant), perforce something of a statistician/mathematician, I can never see things like this without automatically asking myself such questions as "I wonder how many left-handed people are killed every year using things made for left-handed people?"

... or how many right-handed people are killed for using bagpipes.

[pancelticpiper]

First, about the Highland pipes, 'lefthanded' (hands and instruments reversed) players are not all that uncommon. (For convenience I'll use the term "lefthanded piper" though of course the piper might not be lefthanded, but merely play with the right hand on top, and with the bag under the right arm.)

Here's Strathclyde Police, long one of the world's top pipe bands, which I've often seen with four lefthanded pipers in the ranks



BTW the earliest clear depiction we have of the Highland pipes, and a Highland piper, is this painting from 1714, which shows the pipes reversed from the way most commonly played today; a case can be made for this manner being equally common in the old days



The reason most people switch the bag too is because of ease of strike-in; the upper hand, holding the chanter on strike-in, is on the bag arm, and the other hand and arm are free to come up under the bag to strike in the pipes.

Somebody posted a pic of Pipe Major Donald MacLean Of Lewis who played with reversed hands but pipes on the now-normal left shoulder. People have told me that in the old days the Army would switch lefthanded pipers to the other shoulder this way for sake of uniformity in the band. Playing in a band with a lefthanded piper I will say that it makes countermarching a challenge, with the potential bashing of drones together.

Pipe Major Evan MacRae of The Cameron Highlanders spoke of this, saying that most of the pipers from one of the islands (sorry I can't remember which) played lefthanded, and this being in the recruiting area for The Cameron Highlanders, one would see a number of lefthanded pipers in their pipe band. So in that band at least the pipers weren't forced to switch how they played.

About flutes, flutemaker Casey Burns told me how, a few years into flutemaking, and getting fairly satisfied with the tone of his flutes and the cut of his embouchure hole, he was selling his flutes at his booth out at a festival somewhere when somebody picked up one of his flutes and started playing it backwards. He said it hit him like a ton of bricks because he'd not considered that possibility!

About whistles, they're pretty blind to this issue, unless you want the holes staggered, that is, not in a straight line. Burke, on his big whistles, makes the bottom hole on a separate section which can be rotated. To me this serves little purpose, as does the thumbhole he often puts on his whistles.

[Angel Shadowsong]

Hi and welcome.

I'll be joining the left handed issue too. Sorry.

I'm left handed and I must have inherited it from my father who eats with the spoon on the left hand but writes with the right hand.

I started training myself to be ambidextrous since I was young.

I normally eat with the spoon on my left hand, but after bumping several elbows, I shifted it to my right hand.


When I am alone, I eat with spoon on my left hand and when with others the spoon is on my right.

When eating with a knife and fork, fork is on the left hand except when the meat is hard, I shift it to the right and knife is on the left hand.

I normally write with left hand but when there are instances to write with my right hand I use it like checking papers.

I did some strengthening exercises for right hand on the gym and started playing violin 2 months ago.

The result = I totally suck on the violin. I can do twinkle twinkle and do-re-mi already. hahahah

I play left on top on the whistle, but I can play Sally Gardens, right hand on top.

If your left handed, I find it easy for my left hand to be on TOP.

Left hand does the dominant role of holding the weight of the whistle. But if you were used to right hand on top, then so be it.

Otherwise it is like learning a new instrument if you shift the holding.

[ScotsJim]

Hey guys. Many thanks for the welcome and all the interesting posts. Enjoyed reading these.

[an seanduine]

Welcome to the forum Jim. I have a little scots in me. . .but prefer putting more Irish in me as I can (Jameson's )
Apologies for weighing in a little late.
I am ambidextrous. . .or as a fellow sufferer put it: Heterodextrous. . .equally bad with either hand!
I am, however, surprised no one has brought up the recent work done on right-eared and left-eared hearing. Seems the innate wiring thing really shows here. . .

Bob

[pancelticpiper]

I forgot to mention that an old friend of mine, an excellent guitarist, plays reversed/backwards/lefthanded, but on an ordinary guitar!

His father is a guitarist too, who plays in the ordinary way. My friend, as a child, would dabble on his father's guitar when the father wasn't around, and taught himself how to play, however holding the guitar backwards.

He invented all his own chord-shapes, which of course are completely different-looking than the usual ones.

Many years ago (1970s) my friend and I were attending a hootenanny and we were going to get up and play something. The 'hoot' was in a guitar shop, and my friend told the shop owner "sorry I didn't bring a guitar, can I borrow one?" and the shop owner, having seen my friend play, said "sorry I don't have any guitars set up lefthanded". The shop owner was surprised when my friend informed him that he played an ordinary guitar; he borrowed one, and we played our little set.