Flute Materials

[jim stone]

About dymondwood. There were stories maybe a decade ago, that Sweetheart had abandoned the stuff cause the 'wood' sometimes broke down, chipped, whatever.

[JCortese]

Gotcha. Rats. I guess there will be no barfly-nail-polish-colored flute in my future.

Regarding the PVC ... that's interesting that it's also classed as a polymer. I guess the word does sort of mean "plastic" in a casual sense. Still though ... it's definitely different from the polymer M&E. Although ... hm, now I'm wondering. The walls are thicker on my M&E, and I can see a head lining inside the aperture. I wonder how much weight that adds compared to the Tipple ... ?

[Gromit]

Dymondwood - a lamination of thin (colour stained) Birch veneers impregnated with a resin - so a coloured ply

[Steve Bliven]

Well, all I can say is I've seen folks saying M&E's polymer is anything from Delrin to PVC, including (in the latter camp) Jayhawk here, so who knows?

From an email from yer man himself, Michael Cronnolly, "Its not delrin that my flutes are made from, it is a polymer made for me in Germany and has the same density as wood, that is why they are as good as wood."

Best wishes.

Steve

[Jayhawk]

Play whatever you like...but for me not worrying about whether or not my flute will crack is a huge relief that makes playing much more enjoyable.

YMMV,

Eric

[Geoffrey Ellis]

Play whatever you like...but for me not worrying about whether or not my flute will crack is a huge relief that makes playing much more enjoyable.

YMMV,

Eric

Amen to that. When I make any flute that has joints or tuning slides, I only use wood that has been through a vacuum resin stabilization process or delrin. I don't want to worry that any flute I send out into the world might have issues from wood movement.

[an seanduine]

A short stroll through various wikipedia (I know, I know. . .) articles concerning Polymers, Plastics, Thermoplastics, Thermo-setting Plastics, Resin based Plastic, Malleability might lift some of the fog occurring in this thread.

Bob

[paddler]

A lot of discussion above has focused on the "density" of flute materials (something easily quantified), but other properties, such as hardness, elasticity, and granularity likely have more impact on energy loss. The granularity of the material is important for creating a very smooth bore (in the absence of a separate surface coat, which itself raises questions about durability over long term use, and the ability to produce a coated bore to adequately fine tolerances). High density does not necessarily imply low energy loss. Dense materials can be soft, inelastic, and coarse grained, and hence have high energy loss.

[Viking of Kiev]

About dymondwood. There were stories maybe a decade ago, that Sweetheart had abandoned the stuff cause the 'wood' sometimes broke down, chipped, whatever.

About ten years ago my now former bandmate bought a flute from Sweetheart, in dymondwood. It was "resonance" model, as far as I remember. No keys, no tuning slide, just two parts. The flute was made brilliantly and played well, just Cnat was a bit higher than usual with standard 0xx000 fingering. Tone was not very mighty but in tune and in all normal for an irish flute. Later on my friend went to a local maker and set four keys onto the flute which worked ok. But with time, I dont remember how soon, cracks began appearing in the flute. It ended up with about six or seven cracks in total, both in head and body, which my friend managed to glue from time to time with cyanacrilate so that the flute continued to work well. One more weird thing was that this flute really gained weight while it was played - it just soaked moist from inside and you could feel it just weighing the flute in hand before and after playing. And - it really sounded better being wet and heavy.
It cracked nastily but yet it worked! Finally my friend bought a keyed Hammy and sold the Sweetheart. I would not get surprised to know that the flute still works well up to now. Though, after that, the dymondwood is not the material I'd recommend to have a flute or whistle of.

[jim stone]

Great story.

[tstermitz]

I recently swapped out my Gene Milligan D-whistle body from Cocobolo to Delrin, keeping the same (Delrin) head. Although Gene stated clearly that the tonal characteristic comes from the head, I definitely noticed a tonal change. Less "woody" or "recorder" and more "crisp", but still not all the way to metallic. I don't notice it much now, but it was apparent the moment I changed. The sidewalls are thinner with the Delrin, and certainly the Delrin is heavier and more solid than Cocobolo; clicking it against something is tight and crisp rather than tock-tock, but I don't know whether the tonal change comes from the density, thinner walls, or the polished surface.

I'm quite happy with the change.

D-Flutes operate an octave below the whistle, so I wouldn't know if my observation carries over.

[Gromit]

dymondwood....cracks began appearing in the flute.......this flute really gained weight while it was played - it just soaked moist from inside

Not surprising as around 50% of the internal (& external) area exposed to moisture would have been end grain (which sucks up moisture like a sponge). Ply is made by laminating thin sheets of veneer, each sheet layed at right angles to the previous. This makes for a strong stable material except for the fact that endgrain (50% ) is exposed on all edges, leave a sheet of ply out in rain for a while and it will delaminate along the edges.

[Gromit]

How important are the materials from which instruments are made?

http://newt.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/musFAQ. ... dmaterials

[benhall.1]

How important are the materials from which instruments are made?

http://newt.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/musFAQ. ... dmaterials

The study they refer to only compared different metals didn't it? Just a thought ...

[TWO TOOTS]

paddler wrote; " High density does not necessarily imply low energy loss."

It certainly does when coupled with the property of Durability ( hardness ) as myself and others have mentioned earlier.

also............... " Dense materials can be soft, inelastic, and coarse grained, and hence have high energy loss."

I imagine this is why dense and durable materials such as hardwoods and certain polymers, which do not have these other unwanted properties you mention, are the most favoured and common materials employed in flute making.