Clarke Originals and Shaws

elendil · Post by **elendil** » Mon Oct 20, 2003 9:28 pm

I've been trying for some time to find a satisfactory but not too expensive C whistle, with no real success. Part of the problem (and this may be pure ignorance on my part) seems to be that usually C's are made as if they were mutant D's--D's that somehow grew a little. I've tried the usual run of inexpensive C's, even some more expensive ones, and they almost all seem lacking in robustness somehow. But I can't get myself to pop for a real high end whistle in a key I only use for a relative handful of tunes.

Anyway, this evening I chanced to pick up a battered old Clarke Original in D, fit the plug back in more or less the position it was supposed to occupy, and started playing it. (I have no idea where my C Original is these days, although I've got a variety of Sweetones laying around.) At any rate, I was left wondering how I ever got out of the habit of playing the Clarke Original. It may not be a powerhouse, but for the price it's hard to beat its singing tone.

That got me to thinking! I've never played or even heard a Shaw. It seems to me that Shaws are usually described as physically more robust than the Clarke, but otherwise rather similar. Maybe a Shaw would be what I'm looking for in a C whistle--not the be all and end all, but very suitable for the few tunes I play in C and a bit of an upgrade over the Clarke Original.

Would anyone care to expand on the topic of Shaws, especially in comparison to Clarke Originals? I like the way the Clarke plays, like the tone, too, but wouldn't mind a little more volume. Would the Shaw fit that bill?

Walden · Post by **Walden** » Mon Oct 20, 2003 9:54 pm

I wonder why that would be. The Clarke originals used to only come in C, and the D is recent.

desert_whistler · Post by **desert_whistler** » Mon Oct 20, 2003 10:03 pm

At any rate, I was left wondering how I ever got out of the habit of playing the Clarke Original. It may not be a powerhouse, but for the price it's hard to beat its singing tone.

I love the sound of my Clarke original, but don't you find it takes about twice as much breath as any of your other whistles? Man, I just can't play the thing because I'm constantly gasping :roll: The up side is that it does help me work on my breath control...it's my "practice" whistle. If I can get thru a tune on the Clarke, I can easily get through it on my Generation!

Scott McCallister · Post by **Scott McCallister** » Mon Oct 20, 2003 10:39 pm

All the Shaws I have played on are really breathy. Chiffy and non-present. They may have a place for some things but their lack of focus (and equal or greater air demands of a Clarke) have put me off them. BTW I didn't get the sense that they were any better engineered than the "mutant" spec's you have seen from other cheap C whistles. In fact the fipples seemed to be an unfinished piece of cedar or redwood. Unsanded rough cut. Not very comfortable and the solder in the air way was exposed. I don't know what kind of metal was used but given the grade of workmanship and materials that is apparent throughout the whistle, I have the uneasy and incredulous belief that the solder may have been... lead?

No... it couldn't have been... could it?

Scott McCallister

pixyy · Post by **pixyy** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 1:37 am

I agree on inexpensive C whistles - it is one of the yet unsolved chiffmysteries as to why they don't sound/play well.

There is something about conical whistles; more dynamic in their sound and I find them much more comfortable to play. So if you don't want to put down a small fortune for a Copeland, you're pretty much down to Clarke and Shaw.

Actually Shaws can be quite nice whistles - but they need to be tweeked to focus the air (a lot).

There have been good reports about Jerry Freeman's tweeked Shaws.

Actually I have been wanting to try one of his tweeked Low F's, but it seems such a bother: me buying an F, sending it to him and having to ship it from the US to Daneland...

You can also buy a selection of inexpensive C's and hope to be lucky to have a good one: generation, Oak, Acorn etc.
I have a Dixon C which is not fantastic either...

The mystery continues..

pix

dublingirl · Post by **dublingirl** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 2:17 am

You would need to put a lot of air into playing the high notes on a Shaw. I'm not mad about it. But a lovely whistle in C is the Generation C in brass - a lovely mellow tone & no squeaks. It's always been a favourite of mine - pity the tone is much worse in a D Generation.
Dublingirl

GaryKelly · Post by **GaryKelly** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 2:24 am

Scott McCallister wrote:All the Shaws I have played on are really breathy. Chiffy and non-present. They may have a place for some things but their lack of focus (and equal or greater air demands of a Clarke) have put me off them. BTW I didn't get the sense that they were any better engineered than the "mutant" spec's you have seen from other cheap C whistles. In fact the fipples seemed to be an unfinished piece of cedar or redwood. Unsanded rough cut. Not very comfortable and the solder in the air way was exposed. I don't know what kind of metal was used but given the grade of workmanship and materials that is apparent throughout the whistle, I have the uneasy and incredulous belief that the solder may have been... lead? No... it couldn't have been... could it?

Scott McCallister

Indeed, what Scott said! I bought a Clarke and a Shaw (both in D) on the same day. The Clarke looked great (I love the hideously tacky diamonds) and well-made. In comparison, the Shaw looked a little like something knocked up by a bored plumber late on a Friday afternoon. Something in the fipple stabbed my lower lip when I went to play it...as Scott said, 'unsanded rough cut', and there's a visible gap between the fipple and sidewall of the whistle. The Shaw's air demands have been mentioned a lot, but I was still surprised...I'm fairly sure I've seen normally-aspirated V8 engines that required less.

On balance, I think the Clarke feels better and sounds better, and definitely looks better than the Shaw. But then, I'm going to keep practising with my muted Faedog until I can do either of them justice.

Gary

Fenguin · Post by **Fenguin** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 3:16 am

Scott McCallister wrote:I have the uneasy and incredulous belief that the solder may have been... lead?

No worries mate.

Dave Shaw wrote: http://www.daveshaw.co.uk/SHAW_Whistles ... stles.html

SHAW whistles are a sweet toned instrument, individually voiced to give maximum performance. The whistle is a tapered design, handmade in solid nickel silver sheet with a carved hardwood block, the lower keys having a metal lined wind way. They are assembled using lead-free solder.

Jerry Freeman · Post by **Jerry Freeman** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 3:27 am

Here are some threads about the tweaked Shaws.

http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?t=14001
http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?t=11712
http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?t=13896

In E, Eb and D (soprano) they are $36.50 plus postage.
C, $39.50
Bb, $54.50
A, $56.50

Postage in the U.S. is $3.85 for one whistle. For international postage, I'll need to know the destination and which whistle(s) will be sent.

I do business directly through email. Don't forget to remove the spamblocker letters and one dot from my email address or it'll bounce.

Thom Larson at The Whistle Shop now has the soprano D tweaked Shaws in stock, though they aren't listed on his website yet. www.thewhistleshop.com.

Best wishes,
Jerry

chas · Post by **chas** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 6:01 am

I spent an hour or so in HMT recently looking for a good cheap C. I came away with a Walton's nickel. They also had Clares, Sweetones, Generations, Clarkes, possibly a few others. I initially thought it was passable, but in the weeks since, I seldom play anything else in the car. It's a really fantastic instrument, good tuning, and a nice round sound with very little breathiness and plenty of chiff.

RonKiley · Post by **RonKiley** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 6:49 am

I like my Gen Cs and I must have had enormous luck, I have a Meg C that is very good. I do not play the Cs very often but when I do I like the sound.

Ron

elendil · Post by **elendil** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 7:20 am

Walden wrote:

I wonder why that would be. The Clarke originals used to only come in C, and the D is recent.

why what would be? i don't follow that. i've owned Clarke C's for many years (originals and a plain silver one) and, yes, the D's are relatively recent. but i haven't played them for years and could only find the D when I went looking last night. i think i gave them to my flute and whistle playing son.

anyway, thanks for the comments. i've never had a problem with breath requirements re the Clarke Original, so i may go out looking for a new C locally. after several years of not playing a Clarke Original i was very pleasantly surprised at how much i enjoyed it, which goes to show how our impressions can change and develop. the comments on the shaw workmanship are definitely offputting. i was attracted to their description as being made of nickel, since Clarke Originals can get dinged up and bent pretty easily.

i do have two Gen C whistles that i acquired over the years, but they're all damaged to one degree or another--dents, cracked headpiece, etc. they used to be my favorite Gens, but i've mostly been playing other whistles like my Sweetheart for the last few years. it's interesting that, inexpensive though they may be, the Gens do have bores that are custom sized for each key, unlike many of the top end C's (excepting Burke and Serpent, to my knowledge). i guess that has to do with economics of scale, but i suspect that's part of the problem with a lot of "high end" C's: being slower sellers, small scale makers are more inclined to the "multiple barrels on D head" solution. my problem with the Gen types in general

is that they tend to be flat at the top end, and their tone usually seems thin to me. de gustibus non est disputandum, sometimes.

PhilO · Post by **PhilO** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 7:59 am

I think the Walton Golden Tone C is one of the best C whistles on the planet. I also always liked my Clarke original. After that, good C whistles cost a bit more - my personal favs right now are the Sindt and the Silkstone PVC. I gave up on (D) Shaw (other than to gaze upon its simple beauty lying there in that felt green case) until I get a new set of lungs and also found it too airy (its being sent to the Freeman Clinic for Rehab). Although to be honest, I haven't played that key much at all lately...

PhilO

DCrom · Post by **DCrom** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 10:17 am

It's been mentioned before upthread by others, but let me add a recommendation: I really like my Oak C.

For better or worse, it's a much different whistle than the Oak D - a bit higher wind demand (still doesn't need a lot), responsive but much less prone to squeak, rather chiffier sound. Quite solid feeling in the hand, too - noticably heavier in the hand than my Walton's C (another whistle I quite like).

If you haven't already got either an Oak or a Walton's C, it's probably worth investing the $20 or so it would to get one of each. I like both of them much more than I do the Sweetone/Meg C's.

Or (preparing to duck) you could order a Susato C. (Nervously waiting for Bloomfield to clobber me with an Overton for mentioning the name!

)

Patrick · Post by **Patrick** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 10:44 am

Pix- re. that low F Shaw - you could order it from a US-based supplier, to be shipped directly to Jerry Freeman, tell him it is coming, then just have to pay for it to cross the ocean one time. Elderly has decent prices on Shaws, last time I checked.

Just a thought about logistics and money saving.

-Patrick