Has anyone tried Native America Flutes? If so-
5 or 6 holes
what key
what wood
and what is your overall impression of them?
Joe
Anybody tried Native American Flutes?
What do you want to do with an American Indian flute?
These flutes were originally developed for communing with nature. Later, many tribes used them for courtship and group rituals. It is only very recently that anyone has used them for "jamming."
Many individuals who remain true to their old ways are offended by the way these instruments are now used.
If you are interested in the traditional roots, attend a pow-wow in the mid-western US or Canada.
If you like the meditative soulful sound of American Indian flutes, consider that you can play similar music on the low whistle. Susato.com has traditional American Indian sheet music for whistle and recorder. Or, you can just learn the pentatonic scale and play what you feel.
The six and seven hole (oops, five and six hole--sorry I have dysnumia) configurations come from different tribal regions. Some flutes have scales that don't match western music at all, but many are based on the five tone or pentatonic scale. I've seen some American Indian style flutes redesigned to play a diatonic scale....
It is easier to play American Indian compositions on a whistle than it is to play Irish music on an American Indian flute.
If you were to split open some of the American Indian flutes you would find that there isn't a straight bore inside. There are chambers, and the design depends on the tribal regional influence.
Carlos Nakai has a nice tutorial on playing this style flute. Run a search on his name.
Lisa
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ysgwd on 2002-05-11 16:55 ]</font>
These flutes were originally developed for communing with nature. Later, many tribes used them for courtship and group rituals. It is only very recently that anyone has used them for "jamming."
Many individuals who remain true to their old ways are offended by the way these instruments are now used.
If you are interested in the traditional roots, attend a pow-wow in the mid-western US or Canada.
If you like the meditative soulful sound of American Indian flutes, consider that you can play similar music on the low whistle. Susato.com has traditional American Indian sheet music for whistle and recorder. Or, you can just learn the pentatonic scale and play what you feel.
The six and seven hole (oops, five and six hole--sorry I have dysnumia) configurations come from different tribal regions. Some flutes have scales that don't match western music at all, but many are based on the five tone or pentatonic scale. I've seen some American Indian style flutes redesigned to play a diatonic scale....
It is easier to play American Indian compositions on a whistle than it is to play Irish music on an American Indian flute.
If you were to split open some of the American Indian flutes you would find that there isn't a straight bore inside. There are chambers, and the design depends on the tribal regional influence.
Carlos Nakai has a nice tutorial on playing this style flute. Run a search on his name.
Lisa
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ysgwd on 2002-05-11 16:55 ]</font>
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The Weekenders
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I have a 5hole cedar flute with a carved bird by the fipple that slides for tuning. It is made of Eastern Cedar and has that great smell.
I have used it at school assemblies for playing California tribal melodies though our people didn't really have anything like it, based on ethnographers records. I also used it for Chinese melodies. It is fairly quiet but we always mic anyway. Its about 1 1/2 inch diameter with no chambers.
It is very sweet and is pitched to play in an A minor mode. Its lowest note is like the A whistles we might use. Like tinwhistle, there are a few cross fingerings that achieve other notes, most notably the F so you can play in C Major. You do have to halfhole but they are good sized holes and its not hard.
I can't remember the make of mine (I think its Odell something) but its not a native American type name like eagle feather or something. I will edit post when I get home and find name.
Its peaceful and beautiful to play. You get used to the other fingerings though I once did blank out during an assembly and try to use whistle tunings.
They're not cheap compared to whistles but they are well made. I think they're best for improvising but you never know, some people might have a different reaction to them than I do.
I have used it at school assemblies for playing California tribal melodies though our people didn't really have anything like it, based on ethnographers records. I also used it for Chinese melodies. It is fairly quiet but we always mic anyway. Its about 1 1/2 inch diameter with no chambers.
It is very sweet and is pitched to play in an A minor mode. Its lowest note is like the A whistles we might use. Like tinwhistle, there are a few cross fingerings that achieve other notes, most notably the F so you can play in C Major. You do have to halfhole but they are good sized holes and its not hard.
I can't remember the make of mine (I think its Odell something) but its not a native American type name like eagle feather or something. I will edit post when I get home and find name.
Its peaceful and beautiful to play. You get used to the other fingerings though I once did blank out during an assembly and try to use whistle tunings.
They're not cheap compared to whistles but they are well made. I think they're best for improvising but you never know, some people might have a different reaction to them than I do.
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herbivore12
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Joe:
As was mentioned, most of the NA-style flutes you'll find are in a pentatonic minor tuning, and aren't well-suited for Irish music.
That said, I played Native American flutes before I played whistle, and still love them; they are especially well-suited to contemplative music, but can be playful, too. (Although even playful music on NA Flute can sound melancholy to listeners accustomed to Western music; the minor keys are haunting, and the wood imparts a special quality to the sound).
Your questions:
a) 5 or 6 holes: 6-hole flutes are more flexible in playing notes "outside" of the scale, and have alternate fingerings that can make some passages easier. However, you can play most of the music you hear on NA flute ona 5-hole flute. I prefer 6 holes, personally. In most 6-hole flutes, the third hole from the top, if covered, gives you the same scale as a 5-hole flute. (This is not the case with all flutes, as you'll see below.)
what key: F# minor and G minor seem to be the most common, but they come in many keys. I have them from A-minor down to D-minor, and am about to order a C-minor as well. People seem to find the sound of the F#-minor flute I own to be the most haunting.
what wood: this doesn't matter as much, in my opinion, as some people think. In hardwoods, I find walnut to be a bit warmer and richer than, say, cherry. Maple seems a bit brighter. In softwoods, I like western cedar and redwood -- a bit breathier sounding. I find Eastern red cedar to be pretty, but a bit brittle and light.
and what is your overall impression of them?: Well, they're great for playing NA-style music. Easy to just toodle around on, since in the pentatonic tuning you almost can't play a wrong note. Easy to play, pretty to hear, beautiful to look at.
Makers to consider: I have flutes mostly by Butch Hall (R. Carlos Nakai plays his flutes, too), which are very inexpensive and very well-made. Along with Amon Alorin flutes by Ken Light (also played by R. Carlos), they have a slightly different fingering on one or two notes than most flutes do. However, I prefer their alternate fingering, and find switching to the more common fingering easy to do.
You can get Butch's and Ken's flutes from their websites (do a google search). You might also search for The Oregon Flute Store, which specializes in NA flutes by a number of makers. They carry a flute by Ken Light which is a plastic copy of his cedar flutes, and which comes with two bodies (F#-minor and G-minor), which is very affordable and sounds better than some of the wooden flutes I've played. It's hard to beat Butch Hall's flutes for quality and affordability, too, and he and his wife are very pleasant to work with.
For some very beautiful flutes, too, you might look at JP Gomez's work at: http://www.heartsongflutes.com
Some gorgeous stuff.
Good luck,
Aaron
Joe
As was mentioned, most of the NA-style flutes you'll find are in a pentatonic minor tuning, and aren't well-suited for Irish music.
That said, I played Native American flutes before I played whistle, and still love them; they are especially well-suited to contemplative music, but can be playful, too. (Although even playful music on NA Flute can sound melancholy to listeners accustomed to Western music; the minor keys are haunting, and the wood imparts a special quality to the sound).
Your questions:
a) 5 or 6 holes: 6-hole flutes are more flexible in playing notes "outside" of the scale, and have alternate fingerings that can make some passages easier. However, you can play most of the music you hear on NA flute ona 5-hole flute. I prefer 6 holes, personally. In most 6-hole flutes, the third hole from the top, if covered, gives you the same scale as a 5-hole flute. (This is not the case with all flutes, as you'll see below.)
what key: F# minor and G minor seem to be the most common, but they come in many keys. I have them from A-minor down to D-minor, and am about to order a C-minor as well. People seem to find the sound of the F#-minor flute I own to be the most haunting.
what wood: this doesn't matter as much, in my opinion, as some people think. In hardwoods, I find walnut to be a bit warmer and richer than, say, cherry. Maple seems a bit brighter. In softwoods, I like western cedar and redwood -- a bit breathier sounding. I find Eastern red cedar to be pretty, but a bit brittle and light.
and what is your overall impression of them?: Well, they're great for playing NA-style music. Easy to just toodle around on, since in the pentatonic tuning you almost can't play a wrong note. Easy to play, pretty to hear, beautiful to look at.
Makers to consider: I have flutes mostly by Butch Hall (R. Carlos Nakai plays his flutes, too), which are very inexpensive and very well-made. Along with Amon Alorin flutes by Ken Light (also played by R. Carlos), they have a slightly different fingering on one or two notes than most flutes do. However, I prefer their alternate fingering, and find switching to the more common fingering easy to do.
You can get Butch's and Ken's flutes from their websites (do a google search). You might also search for The Oregon Flute Store, which specializes in NA flutes by a number of makers. They carry a flute by Ken Light which is a plastic copy of his cedar flutes, and which comes with two bodies (F#-minor and G-minor), which is very affordable and sounds better than some of the wooden flutes I've played. It's hard to beat Butch Hall's flutes for quality and affordability, too, and he and his wife are very pleasant to work with.
For some very beautiful flutes, too, you might look at JP Gomez's work at: http://www.heartsongflutes.com
Some gorgeous stuff.
Good luck,
Aaron
Joe
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Reyburnwhistles
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Joe,
I started out making N/A flutes and I still love to play them. They are a very meditative instrument. Most of the info regarding your question has been answered, however, regarding wood, I prefer Western Red Cedar or clear heart redwood. They offer a very sweet tone, the cedar being slightly brighter. I have a few of these instruments available in Cedar in F# if you're interested. Contact me at reyburnwhistles@hotmail.com.
Ronaldo
I started out making N/A flutes and I still love to play them. They are a very meditative instrument. Most of the info regarding your question has been answered, however, regarding wood, I prefer Western Red Cedar or clear heart redwood. They offer a very sweet tone, the cedar being slightly brighter. I have a few of these instruments available in Cedar in F# if you're interested. Contact me at reyburnwhistles@hotmail.com.
Ronaldo
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brewerpaul
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Wonderful flutes to play!! The pentatonic scale won't play Celtic stuff very well, but that can be very liberating since you don't feel compelled to play a "real" tune when you pick up the flute. Your own creativity comes out, and nearly everything you play on such a scale sounds OK.
Here is a website of a flutemaker friend of mine who does simply wonderful work at very reasonable prices. I have absolutely no commercial interest, etc, although Eric does play one of my rosewood whistles in his performances.
http://geocities.com/whistleworld/index.html
Eric can also make NA style whistles with a normal, diatonic scale so you get that NA sound, but CAN play Irish music. He made me an amazingly gorgeous double barreled one in apricot wood-- the second barrel is a drone: sort of like a flute/whistle/bagpipe.
He doesn't list prices on the website, but send him an e-mail with your questions. You will not be disappointed.
Here is a website of a flutemaker friend of mine who does simply wonderful work at very reasonable prices. I have absolutely no commercial interest, etc, although Eric does play one of my rosewood whistles in his performances.
http://geocities.com/whistleworld/index.html
Eric can also make NA style whistles with a normal, diatonic scale so you get that NA sound, but CAN play Irish music. He made me an amazingly gorgeous double barreled one in apricot wood-- the second barrel is a drone: sort of like a flute/whistle/bagpipe.
He doesn't list prices on the website, but send him an e-mail with your questions. You will not be disappointed.
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Walden
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I am a member of the Cherokee Nation. As a tinwhistle player, I have a couple of 5 hole Cherokee flutes, including a beautiful one by Tommy Wildcat. He has some unique albums. He plays traditional Cherokee flute in the background, while singing southern Gospel hymns in Cherokee (dubbed over).
Minor key hymns such as <a href="http://free.gentle.org/users/gospelhymns/page17.html">I will Arise and Go to Jesus</a> are easy to play on them, and hauntingly beautiful.
Minor key hymns such as <a href="http://free.gentle.org/users/gospelhymns/page17.html">I will Arise and Go to Jesus</a> are easy to play on them, and hauntingly beautiful.
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DazedinLA
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OK, so I was sitting in the park today playing my Copeland, and this attractive young Native American woman came up to me with that glowing "Oh my God you play the whistle/flute that's so cool" look (you know the look). Tin Whistles and Tarot Cards, guys...much better than walking a dog...Anyway, to my surprise she produced a tote bag and revealed a beautiful cedar 5 hole in G.
So she tried mine and vice versa. Wow, that was one beautiful sound. Mello, haunting and airy, but no chiff as Ive come to know it. Five holes was kinda weird, and the upper octave had some trouble (do these have an upper octave?), but it was a pure delight to play. I must admit, though that its sound is so different that I wasnt sure what exactly to play...playing an improv slo aire was the only thing that seemed right and appropriate for this instrument.
Anyway, it was a nice moment and I thought I'd share.
Kev
So she tried mine and vice versa. Wow, that was one beautiful sound. Mello, haunting and airy, but no chiff as Ive come to know it. Five holes was kinda weird, and the upper octave had some trouble (do these have an upper octave?), but it was a pure delight to play. I must admit, though that its sound is so different that I wasnt sure what exactly to play...playing an improv slo aire was the only thing that seemed right and appropriate for this instrument.
Anyway, it was a nice moment and I thought I'd share.
Kev
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brewerpaul
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"the upper octave had some trouble (do these have an upper octave?), but it was a pure delight to play. I must admit, though that its sound is so different that I wasnt sure what exactly to play...playing an improv slo aire was the only thing that seemed right and appropriate for this instrument. "
No upper octave to speak of-- maybe a coupla notes if you're lucky. Improv slow airs are just fantastic on this type of flute though, and even improv jigs, etc. Try some of your usual ornaments for a Celtic/NA sorta thing. As you noodle around with it, you will discover many surprising tunes that work in that pentatonic scale-- I even found a Hendrix !
No upper octave to speak of-- maybe a coupla notes if you're lucky. Improv slow airs are just fantastic on this type of flute though, and even improv jigs, etc. Try some of your usual ornaments for a Celtic/NA sorta thing. As you noodle around with it, you will discover many surprising tunes that work in that pentatonic scale-- I even found a Hendrix !
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DazedinLA
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Really? Which Hendrix? 
Is there a standard fingering chart for 5 hole native american flutes, or does this vary with each tribe/make, etc.
I checked out some of the sites listed here...sigh...WhoA expands to Native American Flutes fairly easily, and these things arent cheap. Thankfully, it looks like I'll be hooking up with my New Friend soon so I'll be able to experiment with her flute.
Oh, by the way, I've added this post to the Matrix.
Is there a standard fingering chart for 5 hole native american flutes, or does this vary with each tribe/make, etc.
I checked out some of the sites listed here...sigh...WhoA expands to Native American Flutes fairly easily, and these things arent cheap. Thankfully, it looks like I'll be hooking up with my New Friend soon
so I'll be able to experiment with her flute.Oh, by the way, I've added this post to the Matrix.
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brewerpaul
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Glengary
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Amon Olorin has some NA flutes
http://www.aoflutes.com/main.htm
They carry an ABS model for $64.95 (includes S$H) It is two Flutes in One -- G-minor and F# Tunings. If you're looking for one to start with, I think this is the one. You may have to wait a few weeks to get it but hey, I think its worth it.
http://www.aoflutes.com/main.htm
They carry an ABS model for $64.95 (includes S$H) It is two Flutes in One -- G-minor and F# Tunings. If you're looking for one to start with, I think this is the one. You may have to wait a few weeks to get it but hey, I think its worth it.