Zampogna a Paro with double-reeds?

[CHasR]

....and here they both are back once more today...

[Celtpastor]

Recently read something about Zampogna "moderna" - if I got it right, they have two unequal-length-chanters, but the range of an entire octave split on them. That would mean, You could play "normal" tunes on that instrument and it would be much more versatile, than normal Lucana/Molisana Zampogne (mostly usable for accompanying Ciarramelle). Do I get that right? Anyone any experiences with Zampogna moderna? Are semitones possible by "fork"-fingering? Does the long chanter get the tonic with all fingerholes closed or with the pinkiehole open? And if so: What tone do I get with the pinkie closed - semi- or fulltone below the tonic? What note does the shorter chanter get with all fingers closed - 3rd/4th/5th above the tonic?
Thx in advance!

[Ciarameddaru]

Celt Paster. The Zampogan A Moderna is played in Southern Calabria, mostly in the Reggio Calabria region. From what I understand it is essentially an A Chiave but with Single reeds and no chiave. It is tuned like the A chiaves found in that region (Catanzaro, Reggio, Cardeto) in that it has a third drone that plays the tonic note of the bass chanter. IF you are looking for a pipe with one octave spread across 2 chanters than you would need to look at the A paro pipes found in that same region and also in eastern Sicily - except that the pipes are of equal length.

Here are some videos of A Moderna and A Paro pipes from Cardeto in Southern Calabria. Notice that south of Catanzaro region they dont play with the piffero and the A Moderna and A Paros are played solo with tamborello.
http://usonu.blogspot.com/

The A paro is usually built on a smaller scale than the A chiaves. Also the A chiave and A moderna playing style found in and south of Catanzaro is drastically different than that found in Scapoli or in Campania or even northern Calabria. Watch the root note progression on the bass chanter. It bounces back and fourth between the 3 and the 2 and then hits the 1. This is the same way they play the Lira Calabrese.

[CHasR]

http://usonu.blogspot.com/

that site's like a bleedin artichoke, David. Could spend all day there.
I'd been under the impression that 'zampogna a moderna' (like what Lino Miniscalo from Tratturo plays,) is a double reeded, higher -pitched Molise, senza chiave, with 5 notes on the bordone maggiore,and a 'chiave-sul-ritta' allowing a range of a minor 7th on that pipe.
Since my Italiano is, well, "molto-stinkissimo"; is there some overlap as to what they are calling the newer, cutting edge instruments these days?

[Ciarameddaru]

Charlie, I have more sites like that for you if you have more time to "waste"

I was pondering as to why it's called A moderna. My guess is that the A paro single reed makers in southern calabria were trying to essentially copy the 3 drone a chiave pipes but did so with single reeds (because that's all they knew) and realized that when small enough and with single reeds didn't need a key.
The form and overall construction as well as timbre is identical to the A Paro pipes in the same region except there is a longer left chanter.

So I am guessing it developed after the A Chiave and A Paro had been around so they called it the modern pipe. It's sort of a fusion of the two.

Regarding what they guys are doing up in Scapoli with their modified drones etc that is a whole diff deal and a much more "modern" development than the "A Moderna" pipes of S. Calabria. But the calabrian guys got the name first so as the say "first in time first in right."
My friend Marco plays a Scapoli pipe that has the two little thumb holes to play the 6th and 6thb as well as a key that plays the 7th all on the bass drone. I believe they would probably just call something like this a Zampogna A Chiave con Bordone modificato. But who knows!

[CHasR]

Charlie, I have more sites like that for you if you have more time to "waste"

Oh that's funny! Never a 'waste'of time spent on zampogne!

I believe they would probably just call something like this a Zampogna A Chiave con Bordone modificato. But who knows!

that s what I thought...
Personally i think its a real strength of bagpipeing in Italy to have such fluid forms of organology, yet remain true to regional musical styles, yaknowwhadimean?

[Celtpastor]

...just recieved the 2nd volume of Gioielli's "Zampogna" - book - yippieh! It's about the southern-italian Zampogne, so also those from the Calbrese region! My Italian is, well - I'm doin' alright in trying to read, since I learned a lot of Latin at school . So, reading the scales printed there, it DOES seem in fact, that the "moderna" is somewhere in the middle between the "a paro" and "a chiave". I have both types here, the "a chiave" from Scapoli and "a paro" from Sicily. Now, while the a paro calabrese seems to be identical with the Sicilain ciarramedda (1 octave spread over 2 chanters, singlereeds), the "a chiave Calabrese" seems to be NOT identical with the "a chiave"-types in Molise or Lucana! In contrast to them, it's NOT supposed as an accompanying instrument to the Ciarramella, but as a soloinstrument (as the videos posted before show, thx)! And so it seems from the scales printed in the book, the Z. a chiave Calabrese DOES have a melodic range of (almost) an octave, spread onto two chanters! The "a moderna" seems to be somewhere between "a chiave Calabrese" (unequal length-chanters) and "a paro" (singlereeds), also about an octave, but split to two unequal-length chanters, yet single-reeds (seemingly the big difference to the more northern Zampogna Zoppa)...
But yet again my question: What are Your experiences with Zampogne Calabrese a chiave and a moderna, especially compared to Zampogne a chiave from Molise/Lucana and Zampogna a paro? DOES ANYONE in this forum HAVE ANY practical experiences with these Calabrese instruments??? Sean? SEAAAAAN!!!!

[Ciarameddaru]

Regarding the A Chiave from Southern Calabria, this is the instrument I am referencing just to make sure we are talking about the same thing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AV7CDK7PBIY As far as I know, it is tuned the same as the northern a chiave pipes but with the third drone playing the tonic note of the bass chanter (Sean can you tell?).

There were no clips of the above style of pipe in the link I gave earlier (http://usonu.blogspot.com/). Now this type of A Chiave IS played with the Piffero. It is also played without it. This can be said for all types of A Chiave pipes.

Here is the Calabrian A Paro. If it is tuned differently than the Sicilian version I cannot tell. Maybe Sean with his "golden ear" can take a listen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MB08aXmP ... re=related

Ok, now this pipe is listed as an A Moderna, but the playing style is diff. Can you tell what the scale is -octaves? (Sean, anyone??)?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLVTDtuV ... re=related

Here is the more "common" A Moderna - the type played in the usonu.blogspot.com videos :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1ExEWxy ... re=related

I have no practical experience with the Calabrian A Moderna and A Paro pipes other than what I have seen and read (i read italian) on the Internet. Regarding the Southern Calabrian A Chiave's I have spent time in Catanzaro with musicians there who play these pipes including meeting their pipe maker. But I don't own or play one myself. You have to go a little farther south of Catanzaro before you start encountering all the A Moderna and A Paro pipers, but they do play them in Catanzaro as well. But Catanzaro is more A Chiave and Surdulina, it's kind of a cross over area where you get all 4 types of pipes as well as the Piffero.

If you want to hear a really good example of A Chiave playing from Southern Calabria click on the link below and go to the player on the left hand side of the page and listen to song number 5 from the late Giuseppe Ranieri:
http://ciurameddha.ning.com/

Same type of pipe with Piffero:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5oMJEIP ... annel_page

OK IM DONE POSTING LINKS NOW!!!

[sean an piobaire]

Guys Guys !!!
The majority of my experiences with Calabrian Zampogne, is with the "Surdulina" type,
with Big Diameter Single Reeds, with or with-out the big decorative discs at the distal ends
of the Chanters and Drones.
Please look at the 4 of my 5 Zampogne are on Oliver Seeler's "Universe of Bagpipes" site,
http://www.hotpipes.com
(It's Oliver's site and my collection of Pipes for those of you who haven't seen it).
My friend Hector Bezanis has a Calabrian Zampogna a Chiave, and I started making double Reeds
for it many years ago, but I never finished it, for various reasons.
My friend Ted Anderson, went on a Calabrian buying spree with Salvatore Buffanio,
and Guiseppe Salamone, in Terra Nova di Pollino. This was about 10 or 12 years ago, and the
one "A Paro" from Buffanio had 3 Drones, one of which was a low tonic (keynote) instead of the
usual Drones in Fifths. The Scale was the overlapping Octave type between the 2 Chanters,
and like the Sicilian Ciarmedda, it used all Single Reeds.
Ted had an order in for an A Chiave from Buffanio that had all Single Reeds and I was very
interested to see what that was like, as the Sound could be Lower in Pitch and less "edge" harmonics.
Alas, Ted changed the order to some other type, as he was getting it for another Piper who only
wanted a Zampogna with Double Reeds, not Single Reeds.
Ted's Salamone Surdulina had hollow BELLS instead of Discs or Plain Ends with decorative, minimal Bells.
I think YOU Celt Pastor, you need the Parisi model with all the keys !!!
It's a Re-Invention of the SORDELLINA or Neapolitan Musette of Michelle Todini,
but by a Sicilian, Senore Parisi......or "Cut to the Chase", and contact Horst Grimm the man
who made the reconstruction Sordellina after the publication of the G. Baldano tablature
into Modern Musical Notation in 1996. Lots of Musical Possibilities on that Instrument !!!
Now for my comments on the Videos in David's last Posting:
Video #1 Ciarmella di Compari Tigani this Ciarmella is exactly like a Sicilian
Ciarmedda, except for the Calabrian Style of Playing. Nice Piping
(but not great sound recording and that's true for many of these Videos,
but I don't have the really good hook-up or can I down-load the really high resolution
programing on my computer).
Video #2 Tarantella Calabrese...same as the Sicilian Pipes, Calabrian Style of Piping
Video #3 "Varie Sonate" (various tunes) a Calabrian ZOPPA !!!! Giuliano's fingers show
me that it has an overlapping Scale between the 2 Chanters.
Video #4 Mimmo Morello....as the Camera Man has the Microphone aimed directly
at the High "Sqeeker" Drone (a high pitched 5th) it's tough to listen to it.
It's another Calabrian "Zoppa" with unequal size Chanters, but the overlapping Scale
of one Octave on 2 Chanters. Nice Piping by that young man, even though the
sound is so bad.
As you can see, Looks are Deceiving, it's the same overlapping Octave Scale, on Equal and
Unequal Size Chanters......and lots and lots of regional NAMES for all these Pipes.
Giving different NAMES to the Pipes, is a point of PRIDE,
on the part of all these different Pipe Makers and Pipers.
David can you do one more link to a video of the Ciarmella di Amatrice ?
That type of Zampogna is REALLY DIFFERENT, like a Zoppa but the tuning is like
the Sopilka Duets (2 Shawms without Bags) on Krk Island off the Dalmatian
Coast of Croatia. I like it ! I like it, oooooooooooew I like it !!!!
Sean "Dionysus" Folsom

[MichaelLoos]

Sean "Dionysus" Folsom

Didn't you mention in an earlier post you DON'T drink wine?....

[sean an piobaire]

Oh Michael, I have to call on my Deities of the Pipes !
If you have heard the Ciarmella di Amatrice you would know what
I'm after ! In my imagination, can see the Mad Women Dancing...
when I hear that Zampogna.
Dionysus is on my list, and Athena, and Pan sylvanus, but Cybele I leave
off the list, as a Roman Male abborant religious practice......and you can
see what lots of Wine drinking gets you.... A REAL HANG-OVER with nothing
left to hang-over.............also forget being under a grate with a Bull
bleeding all over you !!! There's no way I would want that initiation.
Since I'm not Female, obviously, I can't be a Meanad, those Aulos
playing Women, painted on those ancient Greek Amphorae.
The Maenads are depicted playing and Dancing around Dionysus
(who is sometimes shown holding a Kithara) and having a grand old time.
That's the part I like, the Music and the Dance= A Good Time !
Not being a Wine Drinking man, I find my Euphoria in other
ways: Hyperventilation, and the Musical Sounds made by
all these Bagpipes, which is far better than most of our
modern intoxicants. I have to acknowledge these Divine names
as a nod to the long History of Pipes and Piping. Eo Athena !!!!
Sean "sylvanus" Folsom

[Ciarameddaru]

Video #1 Ciarmella di Compari Tigani this Ciarmella is exactly like a Sicilian
Ciarmedda, except for the Calabrian Style of Playing. Nice Piping
(but not great sound recording and that's true for many of these Videos,
but I don't have the really good hook-up or can I down-load the really high resolution
programing on my computer).

Sean, not sure I agree with that, but I could be wrong!. I think it's exactly the same as a Neopolitan A Chiave but with third drone tuned to the Bass chanter tonic?? Also, is it possible that your statement of the poor sound quality might be a misinterpretation of the timbre of the instrument? The sound quality seems fine to me for youtube standards. I have always thought that the main differences between the Southern Calabrian A Chiave and that of the Neopolitan was that the Southern C. had the third drone tuned to the tonic and that the timbre was diff due to internal bore and bell design.

Video #4 Mimmo Morello....as the Camera Man has the Microphone aimed directly
at the High "Sqeeker" Drone (a high pitched 5th) it's tough to listen to it.
It's another Calabrian "Zoppa" with unequal size Chanters, but the overlapping Scale
of one Octave on 2 Chanters. Nice Piping by that young man, even though the
sound is so bad.

This pipe is the Classic "A Moderna" pipe which I guess is different from the A Moderna pipe in video 3. The pipe in Video 3 I am completely unfamiliar with other than that particular video. If I am not mistaken the pipe in Video 4 (and yes this is crappy sound quality) is tuned the same way as the pipe in video 1 except that it has single reeds and no key.


Per Your Request:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvQtlw5poJ8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHvZ5ezPz7U&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja2vXbjikFU&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79bI4BGv52o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhEh7SSp ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3weKorYK ... re=related

Some of those above vids were filmed in Scapoli this past summer. I recorded the same guys in Alto definizione with stereo Audio Technica condenser mics but this footage wont be released for a while longer...
Also my guess is that only a very small number of people are playing these pipes. The guy i recorded was very adamant on informing me that a "study" had been done and that these were the oldest style of zampogna. I have read this elsewhere on various zampogna sites in Italian but I think it is ultimately impossible to prove.

[CHasR]

we need faces:

Orazio Corsaro

Giancarlo Parisi

( who is a very, very, clean player, btw)

Salvatore Vinci


Cant find a pic of Buffiano

So what do we have here, Calabrian or Messinese type instruments?

I saw Ted Anderson's instrment in Killington one year. It's in F. The altitude was not kind to it, IIRC.
Ted, you readin any o this????

[Celtpastor]

Well Yes, Sean might be right... According to Gioielli's Vol II, the Z. a Chiave Calabrese IS noted with an octave spread on two chanters - and the different examples shown on the pictures in the book all show, there's very little distance (only about an inch or so) between the lowest fingerhole of the high chanter and the highest fingerhole of the low chanter - so, it seems to be REALLY different from the more northern "a chiave"... What Gioielli does NOT mention is the existance of a Zampogna a chiave with SINGLEreeds - but slowly, I'm beginning to think, within Zampogne, there's nothing that doesn't exist...
Yes, G. Parisi also requested me to get this keyed version of a ciarramedda - but, see - keys and me, we just don't seem to fit together (like bellows ), so I look for chanters to be chromatic by simply - err - forkfingering? Crossfingering?? What's the exact English expression for getting the semitone by closing the fingerhole below? It works sooo fine with my Gaitas, my Borderpipes, GHB, Baghet... - even with my simple, keyless Sordellina! Why shouldn't it work with a Zampogna! I mean, they REALLY had time enough to develop chanters capable of that, dind't they??

[Ciarameddaru]

I dont know anything about Orazio or Salvatore. The one way to tell the difference between Sicilian and Calabrian A Paros in their construction is whether or not they have horn trimming on the bells and spots were the drone pieces slide together. However not all Calabrian pipes have this embellishment. And so far I have never seen Sicilian made pipes that have the horn trim, but they could exist (something I'm looking into!). Also, Sicilian pipers tend to have the blow pipe on the right side of the bag instead of the left where it seems to be placed on the Calabrian pipes, however there are sicilian pipers who have it on the left side - including the Sicilian guy who made my pipes, which is how I now play.

Giancarlo's pipes are so modified it's hard to even put them in the same category as the traditional a paro (made in messina where he is from). They have keys and experimental bells. I was fortunate to get to meet him and hang out with him for a few hours and hear him play (and record him) this summer when I was in Catania - it was like 45 dec C... He is a really nice guy and yes a great musician! I also had the distinct honor of riding on the back of his vespa with a backpack full of video and audio equipment, a tripod and a microphone stand. I thought I was going to fall off and die as we wove through the traffic of Catania towards his apartment.

Regarding Calabrian A Chiaves - Sean is probably right. I have yet to tab out the notes on my guitar to see exactly what they are playing. I would have asked people last summer when I was in Calabria but I had so much going on I couldn't think of it all!