Devondancer update

[s1m0n]

"The loo, where's it to?"

That's interesting. Replacing 'at' with 'to' in similar preposition phrases is a key characteristic of several Atlantic Canadian english dialects. In Nova Scotia english, 'where're ya to?' is how you'd ask someone for their present location. Is that a west country thing in england?

[devondancer]

No, Simon, I have not heard it used here in Devon at all. We do have all sorts of funny expressions, and a slower speech with a lot of piratical "arrs," but I have not met that particular expression. I should be interested to know where in the UK it is used, if anyone knows.

I love your "country dance" signature: it should really be mine, of course!

[MikeS]

I've always thought of it as a southwest of England thing, but I'll bow to Lesley's greater experience. The abstract for this article implies that some similar constructions originate in the Celtic languages. I'm going to see if there's some way I can get to the full text through ILL without having to fork over 20 quid.

http://journals.cambridge.org/action/di ... id=5881724

A number of nineteenth-century and early twentieth-century dialect descriptions refer to an unusual adverb + infinitive construction in southwestern and west Midlands dialects of English. The construction is most often reported in the form of a formulaic phrase away to go, meaning ‘away he went’, though it is also found with a range of other adverbs. In addition, the same dialects also make use of a possibly related imperative construction, consisting of a preposition or adverb and a to-infinitive, as in out to come! ‘Come out!’ and a negative imperative construction consisting of the negator not and the base form of the verb, as in Not put no sugar in!. These construction types appear to be marginal at best in earlier varieties of English, whereas comparable constructions with the verbal noun are a well-established feature of especially British Celtic languages (i.e. Welsh, Breton, and Cornish). In this article I argue that transfer from the British Celtic languages offers a possible explanation for the use of these constructions in the traditional southwestern and west Midlands dialects of English.

[s1m0n]

I love your "country dance" signature: it should really be mine, of course!

It's from The Last Battle, and I don't mind if you steal it. I've used it here and elsewhere on and off for years.

[devondancer]

Thank you, Simon. I did recognise it, and might adopt it when you have finished with it! I know you know dance music, from some earlier comments, so for all I know you may be a dancer too!

Mike, thank you for that research. I looked it up in my book of dialects, but it was not there, and I have not yet got round to looking further. It may well be used in Cornwall ... where is Steve Shaw when you want him... but I have not met it here, and my Cornish grandfather and Devonian grandmother did not use it. It sounds like an Irish turn of phrase, to me, but I am no expert on the Irish and I am sure someone here would have recognised it! I will see if any old Devonians round here know it!

Now I have just looked it up in my dictionary of etymology and found that it is used in Somerset and Dorset, which are very much part of the southwest of England, but not quite as far west as Devon and Cornwall!

[SteveShaw]

I'm here! I hate to contradict Lesley, but I taught in Holsworthy in west Devon for 11 years and "where's it to?" is a very common expression. My wife teaches in Bude, in Cornwall, and the expression is common there as well. She also remembers hearing it as a young girl at school in Launceston, Cornwall. Pronounced "Lanson" by the cognescenti...

[devondancer]

Contradict away, Steve! I was looking for you! It does not seem to be used here in east Devon, and certainly is referred to as in use in Dorset and Somerset, so one would have thought it would have trickled down to us here! I will ask around, when I am next out. I am surprised my grandfather did not use it, for he was full of colloquialisms. He was from Hayle, Steve.

[SteveShaw]

Hayle's a long way from this end of Cornwall! I have some nice recent pics of the sea front at Exmouth which I must sort out and post. All those nice multicoloured beach huts! We frequently take my father-in-law for a drive out there, returning to East Budleigh via Budleigh Salterton. What a wonderful area. I'm planning to be around there with the missus and father-in-law in two weeks' time, on 5 March. If it's a nice day and if you and Ro could get down to the sea front perhaps we could shake hands - and I'll have a D harp in my pocket, as ever...

[s1m0n]

Somerset is usually given as a major early source of immigration to Newfoundland, and all through that era the west country (particularly Devon) was the spearhead of the rise of England as a maritime power.

[devondancer]

I am sorry, Steve. We are away that week, or I would have been there, with a whistle in mmy pocket, of course! We have to go to London, of all the awful places to have to visit!

Simon, I love the way language crossed the Atlantic. I have just finished reading Bill Bryson on the subject. Fasinating.

[SteveShaw]

I am sorry, Steve. We are away that week, or I would have been there, with a whistle in mmy pocket, of course! We have to go to London, of all the awful places to have to visit!

Never mind. There'll be a next time!

[SteveShaw]

Somerset is usually given as a major early source of immigration to Newfoundland, and all through that era the west country (particularly Devon) was the spearhead of the rise of England as a maritime power.

Drake he was a Devon man, an' ruled the Devon seas,
(Capten, art tha' sleepin' there below?)
Roving' tho' his death fell, he went wi' heart at ease,
A' dreamin' arl the time o' Plymouth Hoe.
"Take my drum to England, hang et by the shore,
Strike et when your powder's runnin' low;
If the Dons sight Devon, I'll quit the port o' Heaven,
An' drum them up the Channel as we drumm'd them long ago."

Irrelevant but couldn't resist!

[s1m0n]

Thank you, Simon. I did recognise it, and might adopt it when you have finished with it! I know you know dance music, from some earlier comments, so for all I know you may be a dancer too!

I *have* country-danced, but I won't claim any expertise. I'm the one with the black hat and red beard.

[s1m0n]

Somerset is usually given as a major early source of immigration to Newfoundland, and all through that era the west country (particularly Devon) was the spearhead of the rise of England as a maritime power.

Drake he was a Devon man, an' ruled the Devon seas,
(Capten, art tha' sleepin' there below?)
Roving' tho' his death fell, he went wi' heart at ease,
A' dreamin' arl the time o' Plymouth Hoe.
"Take my drum to England, hang et by the shore,
Strike et when your powder's runnin' low;
If the Dons sight Devon, I'll quit the port o' Heaven,
An' drum them up the Channel as we drumm'd them long ago."

Irrelevant but couldn't resist! :D

My dad used to sing that when I was a young, but you and he aren't leaving out the same verses. His included:

Drake is in his hammock, and a thousand miles away
(Captain, art thou sleepin' there below?)
Slung between a roundshot, in Nombre Dios bay
And dreaming all the while of Plymouth Hoe,
And if the Dons..etc.

I can remember puzzling over it, trying to figure out what a 'Dons' might be.

[devondancer]

My dad, no singer but a lover of poetry and verse, used to quote that often!

Simon, I like your dancing!