Irish Flute: The Luddite's Perspective

[Rob Sharer]

Strange then that my repeated requests for such information on this and other forums had elicited nothing of concrete value. But, not too late! I'm keen to hear any advice on how to achieve the tone we admire, to put the plethora of methods to the test as part of my Flute Tone Investigations. So, anyone, don't be backwards in coming forward! Tell us who is teaching tone and, if you're confident you understand it, what approach they are teaching.

Did you ever think that maybe, for once, the good stuff just isn't online? And perhaps can't be put online?

I'm willing to entertain that possibility.


Rob

[Julia Delaney]

This thread points to the fact that tone (i.e. timbre) and intonation are closely linked.

Actually this thread does nothing so much as point up its own irrelevance to the art of playing the flute. As Rob has been saying.

But I suppose it's neither more nor less relevant than the majority of postings here.

[Terry McGee]

Did you ever think that maybe, for once, the good stuff just isn't online? And perhaps can't be put online?

I'm willing to entertain that possibility.

Rob

Well, I didn't necessarily assume it was, hence asking if anyone had been taught about tone at summer schools, or by their private teachers.

I can't see why it couldn't be put on line, but am happy to hear reasons. Given we can transmit words, images, sound, video, and, dare I say, graphs and data, it doesn't leave much we can't transmit!

Indeed, I guess I've just proven we can teach tone over the web, given the enthusiastic responses I've had from some readers on this and other forums to the scant information I've put on:

http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/Getting_the ... k_tone.htm

So I think someone really setting out to do it seriously could probably take it much further. As I said, I'm not a teacher; not even playing professionally at the moment. Bit sad when the least qualified person has to take the running on a central issue!

Terry

[Doug_Tipple]

I agree with Terry. There is no reason why you can't attempt to teach good technique (tone, fingering, etc.) on the internet. Some will listen and take advantage, and some won't. Some will be hypercritical (according to their nature), and some will learn from the experince and come away a better player of the flute.

[david_h]

... if the strings end a piece 10 cents sharper than when they started (not all that uncommon) my pitch better match theirs rather than the Korg.

I appreciate the wisdom of your post, but how do you learn what 10 cents sounds like ?

Judging by the info in the following link, a ten cent variance should be easier to hear than the five cent ...

My point, which MikeS responded to, and you exemplify by your post, was that technical terms like 'cents' are useful in discussion. In your example it is to quantify what might or might not be recognised by the ear in different situations. But to tie hearing to the numbers the gadgetry is more practical than, say, a calculator and string instrument with a moveable fret (or a ruler and a toy swannee whistle ).

[Rob Sharer]

Did you ever think that maybe, for once, the good stuff just isn't online? And perhaps can't be put online?

I'm willing to entertain that possibility.

Rob

Well, I didn't necessarily assume it was, hence asking if anyone had been taught about tone at summer schools, or by their private teachers.

I can't see why it couldn't be put on line, but am happy to hear reasons. Given we can transmit words, images, sound, video, and, dare I say, graphs and data, it doesn't leave much we can't transmit!

Indeed, I guess I've just proven we can teach tone over the web, given the enthusiastic responses I've had from some readers on this and other forums to the scant information I've put on:

http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/Getting_the ... k_tone.htm

So I think someone really setting out to do it seriously could probably take it much further. As I said, I'm not a teacher; not even playing professionally at the moment. Bit sad when the least qualified person has to take the running on a central issue!

Terry

The problem, as I see it, is that the best players/teachers aren't bothering to post online. You've got to go to where they are. Besides, I've never had the same experience of tone through tiny computer speakers as I have from being in the room with a mighty player. It's just not the same thing, and I've made every advance in my own tone after a live experience with a great player.

Meanwhile, where in the world did you get the notion that no one is teaching tone? I wear my students out talking about tone, and I hardly think that's even remarkable, much less rare.


Rob

[Julia Delaney]

I don't play golf, but as I understand it, minute changes in one's swing, posture, approach to the ball can make enormous differences in the game. And, just as in playing the flute, it takes more than reading about the proper position to play properly. Analyses of swings in general, graphs documenting the effect of a crooked elbow on the ball launched into the air, might help to some degree. But there is no substitute for a hands-on tutorial by a pro.
Reading about fluting won't make you a better fluter. It might make for interesting reading but to think that you can become a better player by understanding the dynamics and physics of flutes and fluting is mistaken. It's a waste of time that is better spent practicing. Practicing will make me a better player than engaging in such threads as this one. These threads are no more than interesting diversions, at best.
But I will avoid the real business at hand no longer. On to Miss Johnson's, as played by The McEvoy Express.

[celticmodes]

In the absence of a teacher, a student who practices quite a bit AND has written resources that point them in directions for their personal research is better off than one that has nothing but a flute and some Youtube videos.

I encourage those kind enough to share technical data and informed opinions to continue as it adds to the wealth of knowledge available to the apt pupil.

And to those who think the majority of these types of threads are meaningless, I should think reading and commenting in said threads is an inefficient use of your time.

[Rob Sharer]

In the absence of a teacher, a student who practices quite a bit AND has written resources that point them in directions for their personal research is better off than one that has nothing but a flute and some Youtube videos.

But none of it is any substitute for being around a good player, either listening or in lesson. If you're truly serious about the instrument, you'll find a way to do just that.


Rob

[I.D.10-t]

I have been reading part of Quantz's "On Playing the Flute" and some of the things he mentions have given me a few drills that I want to try involving covering the embouchure. I don't know if I would be experimenting with the embouchure in this way otherwise.

Page 52, sections 8 - 12 may be of interest in this discussion.

[crookedtune]

It's a waste of time that is better spent practicing. Practicing will make me a better player than engaging in such threads as this one. These threads are no more than interesting diversions, at best.

Spot on. However, I suspect many are like myself, and spend lots of time in front of computers in situations where they are not at liberty to play the flute.

I have absorbed lots from these threads. Some is retained, some discarded. None of it has impinged on my practice time.

[Jim Troy]

yeah Terry ! where in the world do you get these notions ? dammit man , if you would only sit down with a great player once in a blue moon, y'know ?

how many times do you have to be told !

and what's more , i bet a gazzilion dollars , that his dad could beat your dad , with his arm tied behind his back...

[Rob Sharer]

Whatever, Seamus.

No one is trying to send Terry himself out for lessons. We're talking about how to learn ta make a good tone on a flute. He says science, I say go to Ireland. No sense trying to ridicule a suggestion that no one has made.


R

[s1m0n]

In the absence of a teacher, a student who practices quite a bit AND has written resources that point them in directions for their personal research is better off than one that has nothing but a flute and some Youtube videos.

But none of it is any substitute for being around a good player, either listening or in lesson. If you're truly serious about the instrument, you'll find a way to do just that.

This is a false dichotomy. Teachers and documentary material (books, recordings, etc., online or not) do not exclude each other, so no one has to choose between them. You can have as many as you like.

[Rob Sharer]

In the absence of a teacher, a student who practices quite a bit AND has written resources that point them in directions for their personal research is better off than one that has nothing but a flute and some Youtube videos.

But none of it is any substitute for being around a good player, either listening or in lesson. If you're truly serious about the instrument, you'll find a way to do just that.

This is a false dichotomy. Teachers and documentary material (books, recordings, etc., online or not) do not exclude each other, so no one has to choose between them. You can have as many as you like.

I didn't say either/or, I said you have to do the one. How you supplement that is your biz. I do, however, still doubt that the harmonic graphs are any real assistance in playing music.


Rob